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#21616 - 08/11/05 09:58 PM Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
§intå× Offline


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Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 3255
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If you like Harry Potter and have not yet read book 6, read no more. You have been warned.


.
I just finished the book last night. I would have finished much sooner but I am busy. So what do you guys think?

Snape is an evil son of a bitch. I am wearing black today because of what I read last night. I actually got angry at that sceen.

Now what about Draco Malfoy? I actually felt bad for him. Sure he is a stupid git. But he did what he did to save his family and his own life. He could not kill Dumbledore. He just couldn't do it.

I am fearful for Harry as he couldn't land one curse on Snape. That was just pitiful. He must have cast 10 curses and all were deflected.

Figure out who R.A.D is yet? I did!!!

this book was once again loaded with

the number 7
the number 12
socks
your moms eyes


Chapter 13 once again is where eveil deciept is revieled. I must say I didn't see the tower sceen coming. Not in a million years.
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#21617 - 08/12/05 04:12 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
AMD/GeForce Offline
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Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Florida
You know i never relized that in the chapter.
I still cant think who R.A.D is.
He needs to learn Ocupincy or what ever.

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#21618 - 08/12/05 05:14 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
Ghost Offline


Registered: 06/16/03
Posts: 807
Loc: Wisconsin
Regulus Black is rumored to be RAB. Yes, it's RAB. :p
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#21619 - 08/12/05 01:53 PM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
EndGame Offline
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Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 589
Loc: brisbane (or any local pub)
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghost:
Regulus Black is rumored to be RAB. Yes, it's RAB. :p
too true.
IT is indeed R.A.B.

I read the book and posted my undying approval on the recomended reading thread.
been waiting for AGES for u people to start a discussion. (didnt want to spoil it if others hadnt got a copy yet).


Well, heres my 2c:
Iv read the book 3 times so far. First time was to enjoy it.
Second time was to pick up literary flair and small tit-bits i may have overlooked(easy to miss witty remarks when ur so excited uv got book 6 in ur hands).
Third time was to disect the plot.
No, i do not have to much time on my hands, just something to do while when travelling to work on the train.

Although i want to hate snape, i cant.
because i cant help but think maybe snape DIDNT kill dumbledore.
If u read somewhere towards the middle of the book (il add exact pages and lines when i actually have the book on me) there was a comment where someone said they heard dumbledore arguing with snape that 'snape didnt want to go ahead with the plans anymore' and 'dumbledore had insisted he had no choice, he had already agreed to help'.
i believe that this has something to do with an ancient type of magic where DUMBLEDORE is thought to be dead but alive in another 'form' through which he will be able to help Harry ultimately.
i know, it seems far-fetched, but i somehow cant help but overlook ms. rowlings fondness for the lord of the rings:

  • Wormtail = Wormtongue

  • Voldemort cannot die unless the horcrux's are destroyed = sauron could not die unless the ring (a possible horcrux) was destroyed

  • Voldemort employs the use of evil creatures = sauron employs the use of orcs and goblins

  • The fate of the free world lies in the hands of harry (he is helped by ron and hermione) = the fate of middle earth lay in the hands of frodo (who was helped by sam and the fellowship)

and then we have:
Gandalf the Grey being ressurected as Gandalf the white... this Dumbledore may still be alive in some form.

Ghost, where did u read that RAB is rumored to be sirius's brother?
I admit, i came to the same conclusion after reading the letter in the locket, but there are quite a few points against this:

  • Regalus was said to be 'weak and not as gifted' as sirius.

So how can such a mediocre wizard discover voldemorts secret? A secret, need i remind u, not even those in the most inner circle of death eaters aware of. [reasoning: lucious didnt know the diary was a horcrux and dumbledore and harry deduced that voldemort is a very singular person having no intention of befriending those around him]

  • Regalus was honored above sirius in the house of Black.

Thus, he was known to adore the dark arts by his family. Why would someone who adored the dark arts want to stop voldemorts rise to power?

  • voldemort had regalus killed.

Sirius stated in The Order of the Phoenix that he wasnt important enough to be killed by voldemort himself. thus, even voldemort didnt hold a high opinion of his own death eater.

  • Sirius and Regalus do not have middle names

Il get the quote when i come online again, but in The Order of the Phoenix, when everyone was at grimmauld place, they had to clean the room full with doxies. afterwards sirius had shown harry the black family tree.
Rowling actually had Sirius speak in the first person and there is a direct quote of Sirius speaking of the members the tree. The thing is, u could tell Sirius was reading out loud from the tree, and he read out Regalus's full name. There was no middle name for Regalus, as there is no middle name for Sirius.

Another reason for me thinking Snape is wrongfully accused, is the fact that when harry chased him out of the grounds and the death eaters were willing to kill harry, snape had stepped in and instructed them that 'harry was for the dark lord'. When harry called snape a coward, rowling describes the scene as snape towering over harry, face contorted in what looked like fear and anguish and replied: 'DO NOT CALL ME A COWARD POTTER!'
Perhaps this means that Snape DID in fact do something great (something that only he and dumbledore knew off) and resented the fact that he was being called a coward.

Snape also stunned Prof. Flitwick. He could have killed him. He could have killed hermione. Instead he only stunned flitwick. could it not be to protect his fellow college from the carnage he knew would be happening downstairs?

There is only one thing in my theory that puts me off.
When snape arrived at the top of the tower, dumbledore was said to have shown the first sign of fear in his voice since the arrival of the death eaters.
could this be he was really hoodwinked by Snape?
I tend to follow my heart and rather think he showed this sign of fear because he wished for snape to go along with the plan.

All in all i think the book was the best read so far.
Rowling positions herself quite adequately for the final book.
The scene is set and all that remains is for the 'weighing of the wands'.
I advise board moderators to keep this topic open over the next year or so...
i simply cant wait!
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#21620 - 08/12/05 03:01 PM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
§intå× Offline


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First off, this is not a hobby this is an addiction now. I have read the first five books several times now. Too much time? Nah, time well spent.

Quote:

Although i want to hate snape, i cant.
because i cant help but think maybe snape DIDNT kill dumbledore.
What about the unbreakable promise that happens in the start of the book. If Draco fails Snape agrees to carry out the task. Draco did indeed fail as he droped his wand. He couldn't do it. He just wanted to prove to mom and dad he could and save thier lives. But in the end he could not betray them.

Draco also was about to join Dumbledore. Even after the death eaters showed up Draco was noticeably upset Greyback was in the school. He dare I say felt guilty. Dumbledore was making progress with him when they showed up. Then Snape who could have taken them, they had thier back to him.

The person who said Snape was arguing with Dumbledore was Hagrid. He over heard them when he was coming back from the dark forest. He was visiting his monster spider.

This argument could go 2 ways. One you could jump to conclusion as you say, this was all planed. The other way is Snape was tired of no one trusting him because he was a double agent on both sides. He was wanting to just stop. Dumbledore saying, you agreed to this now do it. Snape says fuck this an chooses a side, the dark one.

The unbreakable promise is not to be writen off. If he did not fullfill the promise he dies.
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#21621 - 08/13/05 04:06 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
Ghost Offline


Registered: 06/16/03
Posts: 807
Loc: Wisconsin
There's a huge discussion about the why Snape killed Dumbledore all over the web. Some believe that the chapter "The Unbreakable Vows", plural Vows, indciates that Dumbledore made Snape make an Unbreakable Vow, concerning Snape helping Harry complete the destruction of the Horcruxes. Why would Dumbledore force Snape to make the Vow if he was able to help? Maybe Dumbledore knew or even planned his own death for the sake of destroying Voldemort.

Also, I want to add that Rowling established that there is no return from the killing curse in one of the previous books. I think she said this to avert speculation about the return of anyone whom she decided would need to be dead. I don't think Dumbledore is going to be coming back.
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#21622 - 08/13/05 07:00 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
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I think he needed to die. Harry needs to toughen up a bit. He is still IMHO way to soft to face Lord Moldy shorts head on. He will have to thicken his hide so to speak. Plus I think he needs to get a bit more desparet to want to kill him. Sa far Harry has not "Killed" anyone. He just barely tryed at the end of book 6 with snape. But THBP curse was not even then his first curse. What did he try, like 10 smaller curses first? He just doesn't have the edge he needs yet.

I feel he will need a pool of hate and anger to draw upon when he faces Voldy. I am not say he will have to be filled with hate and anger, but have a pool to draw from. In OotP he tryed an unforgiveable curse on B. LeStrange and she said you need to want to hurt the person or something like that. In other words due to lack of hate it failed.

I wish this book had more Fred and George. For me, they made book 5 very fun. lol I'm Gred and this is Feorge. I still think Ron will bite it.

Ron must die next. Here is why. The centars said inocense will die first. What is most inocent in the books? Unicorns thats what. What does Rons wand have in it? A unicorn hair. Anything with unicorns has been dying throughout the books.

I am most curious who the new Head master will be. I find Mcgonagle lacks wisdom a head master should have. She after all did not trust Hagrid. Then again Dumbledore trusted Snape.

JK does not mess up much. Why Snape helped Harry so much in the other books to just switch now baffles me. He could have turned the other way so many times. Bah someone elses turn.
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#21623 - 08/15/05 09:33 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
EndGame Offline
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Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 589
Loc: brisbane (or any local pub)
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghost:
Also, I want to add that Rowling established that there is no return from the killing curse in one of the previous books. I think she said this to avert speculation about the return of anyone whom she decided would need to be dead. I don't think Dumbledore is going to be coming back.
i never said dumbledore would come back as himself, but rather ANOTHER form of dumbledore has to manifest in the final book.
i was reading through the book again and also noticed that dumbledore had to do much research and travel far and wide (while also consulting with various texts and manuscripts) in order to retain the information he acquired about voldemort.
Anyone remember the fellowhip of the ring?
Did gandalf not have to go through a same process?
I just cant see dumbledore being gone for good.
It makes NO sense!
sirius, cedric, the potters...
Harry has already witnessed/experienced enough misery in his life.
I just dnt think rowling can think to get rid of dumbledore completely.
Ghost, i dnt know what copy of the book u have, but im holding mine in my hand right now (first edition, bloomsbury, and i purchased it from Harrods, London (english version - not u.s).
i DO NOT see a chapter marked Unbreakable Vows. Its is a vow and is not in the plural form. Although if it were in the plural form it would only re-inforce my belief that perhaps the other vow was between dumbledore and snape.

Quote:
Page 336 (Hard Copy) THBP (Lines 14 - 19)
'I have been tolerant enough to answer that question already,' said Dumbledore, but he did not sound very tolerant any more. 'My answer has not changed.'
'I should think not,' said a snide voice; Phineas Nigellus was evidently only pretending to be asleep. Dumbledore ignored him.
This shows that the reason dumbledore trusts snape is much more complex than him just coming over to the side of the order. it HAS to be something that was discussed in dumbledores office, in private.

some may argue that towards the end of the book, dumbledore leads harry to believe (or harry deduces this under his own brain power) that the reason dumbledore trusts snape is because he came over to the side of the order while voldemort was in power.
snape had confessed to telling voldemort about part of the prophecy.
BUT harrys folks were killed shortly after the prophecy, thus voldemort lost all his powers. SO HOW COULD SNAPE HAVE ENDANGERED HIS LIFE?
there is more to snape than dumbledore led on.

Quote:
Page 513 (Hard Copy) THBP, Lines (8 - 14)
'But he's a very good Occulumens, isnt he, sir?' said Harry, whose voice was shaking with effort of keeping it steady. 'And isnt Voldemort convinced that Snape's on his side, even now?' Professor... how can you be sure Snape's on our side?'
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something
At last he said, 'I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely.'
The thing dumbledore was trying to make up his mind about was NOT whether Harry had a point. For dumbledore would have spent thousands of hours on his own contemplating this very question. Dumbledore, i believe, was deciding on whether or not to tell Harry the real reason to HOW Snape had proved himself.

we, the readers. have loathed snape since the very first novel.
we, the readers have been proven wrong since the first novel.
to quote lupin:
'It all comes down to whether or not you trust dumbledores judgement. I do, therefore i trust snape.'

Sintax, although i see the logic behind your argument (and cannot dismiss the fact that since we are speculating about the plot development, u could be just as right as i), i just cant see Harry beating voldemort using the killing curse.
Harry, dumbledore has acknowledged, is gifted with a most powerful type of magic: 'Love'.
I believe, when it comes down to it, it is this 'love' that is going to aid harry in defeating voldemort rather than a reserve of hatred.

Using your theory on unicorns, neville longbottoms gran also purchased him a new wand after the ordeal at the ministry.
his wand, yes, u guessed it, has the 'hair of a unicorn' as its core.
I believe rowling was more literal when she reffered to the death of innocence:
Cedric Diggory.
The Goblet of Fire was was the begining of voldemorts rise to power once again.
Cedric Diggory represented the youth of Hogwarts.
Youth is innocence.

Lastly, i DO NOT THINK even for a second, that Harry will kill anyone. When we learnt about horcruxes, dumbledore states that voldemort underestimated the value of a whole, unblemished soul. This, i believe will be harrys greatest strength.
For if he were to kill voldemort, he would rip his soul in two, contradicting the great power of 'love' (yes i know it sounds corny) he has within himself.

i still stick to my idea that snape (apart from being a prat) is on our side.
I look forward (this is sincere, NOT a sarcastic remark) to you trying to prove me otherwise.
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#21624 - 08/16/05 03:39 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
AMD/GeForce Offline
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Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Florida
I must say i love this site. its got my intrest in books and tech. any ways, Dumbledore has to come back, harry is too dumb to do it him slef with or with out his friends. I think JK is making these up as she goes. within the context of the privius books. It could go ether way.( does any one think ginnys going to come back in to play in the next book, some how. there just wasnt enough detail in it. its not like JK to have lack of detail. Just a guess.)I really hope we don't have to wait for 2 years again.(not that it wasn't well worth it.(thats an under statement.)) All i can say is i cant wait for the next one. and all the interesting thoughts.

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#21625 - 08/16/05 04:29 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
EndGame Offline
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Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 589
Loc: brisbane (or any local pub)
Quote:
Originally posted by AMD/GeForce:
Dumbledore has to come back, harry is too dumb to do it him slef with or with out his friends.
i admit, that wasnt one of my theories for why dumbledore should return (but it ties in nicely with the lord of the rings, YET AGAIN. gandalf had to return cos the fellowship needed him).
although im inclined to think that harry, ronald and hermione arent smart enough to figure out the WHOLE picture by themselves (they suspected snape instead of quirrel in book1, they thought malfoy was the heir in book 2, they thought sirius was guilty in book 3, they suspected ludo bagman in book 4 and harry was easily fooled in book 5), you must admit ms. rowling has artfully added to harrys powers of deduction in THBP.
harry had believed from the start that malfoy was a death eater, he deduced that malfoy had the 'other object' on school grounds and he figured out crabe and goyle were using polyjuice potion.
He seemed to know what was happening all the time.


Quote:
Originally posted by AMD/GeForce:
I think JK is making these up as she goes. within the context of the privius books.
i beg to differ with u there AMD/Geforce. there are things in the first book that tie in quite neatly with THBP. for instance, the reason why dumbledore left harry on the doorstep of his last remaining relatives. In the first book hagrid arrived with a flying motorcycle. This, rowling explains belonged to sirius in book 3.
the fact that harry could speak to snakes wasnt even known by the students at hogwarts (or perhaps even dumbledore himself) until book 2.
when writing a fictional/fantasy novel, u are always in danger of stuffing up the novel due to the fact that all rules, guidelines and explanations depend solely on the author.
Authors like Terry Pratchet, Tolkien and now, Ms. Rowling have a gift where they already have their entire world in their heads already.
They just have the story tucked away.
all they need is to only transfer it to paper.


Quote:
Originally posted by AMD/GeForce:
does any one think ginnys going to come back in to play in the next book, some how. there just wasnt enough detail in it. its not like JK to have lack of detail. Just a guess
theres two answers here:

1. yes, ginny has to play a role in the next novel simply because everyone has to go back to the weasleys for bill and fleurs wedding. ginny (along with fleurs sister, gabrielle) are bridemaids. (incidently, i have a hunch hermione may make bridesmaid too)
so yes, we will see ginny in the not too distant future, however small part a role she plays, i do not know.

2. when u speak of detail, i think ur referring to plot detail (as opposed to character richness or surrounding environment detail). Ms. Rowling does in fact, skimp on much of the plot detail, so i have to disagree with u again.
Take into consideration, harry had to wait (thus, so did we) for 5years at hogwarts until he (and us) managed to learn about the prophecy and why his scar used to hurt.
Rowling, like any good novelist, feeds her readers scraps throughout the novel/series and only at certain orgasmic intervals are we given bursts of information.
In regards to surrounding environment detail, i for one, believe ms. rowling has done a remarkable job in sharing her world with us.
And lastly, in regards to character richness, the fact that i can cringe wen Ron has eaten a choclate cauldron that has a love potion inside it or gasp at the 'death' of dumbledore shows that we, the readers are closer to the characters than even we think. It shows that they are no longer characters, but rather friends.

Quote:
Originally posted by AMD/GeForce:
I really hope we don't have to wait for 2 years again.(not that it wasn't well worth it.(thats an under statement.)
sadly, i think we will.
but just like with StarWars: Revenge of the Sith, i have the utmost confidence that Ms. Rowling will not only present us with her best piece yet, but all our questions will be answered.

ta for the post btw.
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#21626 - 08/16/05 05:23 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
EndGame Offline
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Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 589
Loc: brisbane (or any local pub)
iv setup a topic: Harry Potter Book 6 (.:Relating Content:.) on this board.
Please feel free posting any online articles u may have picked up regarding the potter series there as i would like to keep this thread focused on plot development and readers opinions of the series (Sintax permitting, of course)
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#21627 - 08/17/05 12:01 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
AMD/GeForce Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Florida
Yah i guess you make a point/points.
im going to read the book again for fun and to keep my details strait. and ive run out of new things to read.

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#21628 - 08/22/05 06:15 AM Re: Harry Potter book 6(...::: Warning spoiler :::...)
EndGame Offline
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Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 589
Loc: brisbane (or any local pub)
heh
good for u AMD/Geforce

despite the fact that i do have some sort of logic behind my arguments, i dnt think it should be taken for granted that they are correct.

Sintax's argument that harry needs to toughen up and will need a reserve of hatred in order to kill lord voldemort is just as believable (if not more so) as my own.

Its important to remember that none of us but Ms. Rowling herself knows what is going to happen in the final book and it is important for more members to contribute so we can see a bigger picture, thus empowering us with a greater hindsight.
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