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#25905 - 09/02/03 10:34 AM just a random thought
Gollum Offline
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Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 207
Loc: US
i was just reading some stuff, and was suddenly hit with a thought. ask a newbie why he hacks, or what is the point of hacking. and they'll regurgitate information that they have read. 90% of the times, it's something along the lines of "to learn how other systems work, and to get information on them." i had never given it much thought until now, mostly b/c i had never paid attention, but it had occured to me just how much BS that is. i find it funny how so many of them use that as an excuse to try to gain respect, but you know that these ppl dont' even know how their own systems work, in which case they shouldn't be meddling around in other ppls, potentially causing problems. once again, just a random thought. and despite what it may seem, this wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.//
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#25906 - 09/02/03 11:07 AM Re: just a random thought
Rapture Offline
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Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 212
Loc: Redwood
okay

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#25907 - 09/02/03 03:23 PM Re: just a random thought
paradox Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 240
Loc: New Zealand
Haha Smeegle
Yes most of them are indeed just script kiddies in the big bad world looking for respect in all the wrong places like dalnet :p
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#25908 - 09/02/03 06:16 PM Re: just a random thought
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
NOTE: For the purposes of this post the term "hacker" is defined as a "security breaker".

Gollum: That is too much of a cynical outlook

Back when I was interested in hacking it WAS for the purpose of learning. However, to answer the question "why do you hack?" with that answer is like answering "Why do you swim to exercise?" with "cause I want to burn calories".

...

Like duh, exercise involves burning calories. Just like persuing a tech related hobby involves learning.

The question wasn't really answered.

The question is why do you find hacking interesting? What about it fascinates you? One reason for me is that it is so darn complex. Many complex things appeal to me like mathematics, various strategy games, the atomic structure, and living cell makeup. But that can't be the only reason either cause I don't study about the atomic structure, mathematical concepts, and anatomy beyond what I have to learn in school. Instead, I learn about computers - and at the time, persued learning about hacking.

The REAL reason isn't the challenge, the complexity, the wholistic desire to learn... It's the power trip you feel. The rush you get. The pride in public accomplishment, and notoriety involved with being a "bad guy". I will make an absolute and say that ALL hackers hack for at LEAST one of those reasons.
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#25909 - 09/03/03 12:47 AM Re: just a random thought
paradox Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 240
Loc: New Zealand
to be the big bad guy like parson for a day :p
Yeah Right
Why do i hack? I initally started to hack to try take over people computers, now i hack to just learn howto code better program's and learn how to comprimise systems so i can defend my own better then 99% of hackers can. I too love the complexity of hacking i especially like the algorithims that try protect password, and reversing them..
But everyone has there own reason's your just trying to find the idiots who repeat what others have written and laugh at em i do that 2 in dalnet :p
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#25910 - 09/03/03 03:04 AM Re: just a random thought
Coleman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Castro Valley
Well i think that if ur asking a noob y he hacks its like not really fair i mean they dont know if they like it yet most noobs havent even done sh*t yet and iam geussing most of them are just curious to see what its like...i think that question should only be asked to people who are very un noobish.
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#25911 - 09/03/03 05:05 AM Re: just a random thought
unreal Offline



Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 860
Loc: KCRQ
Coleman: then what the hell are ya even doing "trying" hacking? Most of you newbs don't even know what hacking *is*, so how would you know what to like or dislike? This isn't a drug...there is far too much at stake to be bustin' into random computers. And also, the very fact that you are a newbie doing these very things is questionable.

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#25912 - 09/03/03 09:02 AM Re: just a random thought
Gollum Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 207
Loc: US
SR: it does seem cynical. but it's also realistic. i mean, i know i dont' need to tell you that there are too many ppl out there doing (bad) things which they dont' even understand.

to answer your question though. if i want to learn something, i start with my own computer first. in all honesty, i hack (using it in the same sense you are) very rarely to learn. but when i do, i know the consequences of what i do. i do it simply b/c it's fun. i learn as a consequence of it, but that's not my motivation.
also, i dont' really recall the main point of my post. if there was one, i'm sure it was one that was beaten to death a thousand times (newbies will be newbies)...but just to point out the fact that so many times there's the questions like "what's an ip address" and they claim they need the information b/c they want to learn about networking. when i think it's obvious that they got to this site not by googling "networking."
as far as swimming goes, lol. i feel like they're trying to dive into the deep end b4 they learn to swim. someone's gonna drown.
i dunno, i guess you could consider this a post from someone who is just fed up with ppl claiming they have "honest" intentions. b/c lets face it, using the word hacker in teh way that it's become...nobody does it to learn. at least that's not their main motivation. however, if you use hacker in the sense it was origionally intended, then yes, i do it to learn too then. but then again, i really wouldn't need to know what an ip address is. but i think that was the point you were getting at...or made...or, lol, i'm tired.//
_________________________
Unbodied unsouled unheard unseen
Let the gift be grown in the time to call our own
Truth is natural like a wind that blows
Follow the direction no matter where it goes
Let the truth blow like a hurricane through me

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#25913 - 09/03/03 05:52 PM Re: just a random thought
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
my point was that "to learn how other systems work, and to get information on them." isn't BS as you said it was. Of course they want to learn. All newbie hackers want to learn. That's the point of them asking questions. It's not BS, it's just a copout when we are REALLY asking why hacking interests them.
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#25914 - 09/06/03 08:55 AM Re: just a random thought
HighLander Offline

*****

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 270
Loc: Canada
I just thought id drop in a and agree with Gollum, last post there mainly the part.......

Quote:
but just to point out the fact that so many times there's the questions like "what's an ip address" and they claim they need the information b/c they want to learn about networking. when i think it's obvious that they got to this site not by googling "networking."
as far as swimming goes, lol. i feel like they're trying to dive into the deep end b4 they learn to swim. someone's gonna drown.
Anyway my two cents............

The point of Hacking is information, well at least it is now, there will always be that bit of a rush, knowing your breaking the law, and that people see you as "Bad". Started off for me, this might sound stupid, but so I could be kool, chat with other hackers....etc. As I got into it, I would agree with SR, it was interesting, complex, I luved coming across problems that I actually had to think about...........................Anyway I have rambled on long enough back to work I go..............
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#25915 - 09/06/03 07:45 PM Re: just a random thought
jonconley Offline
UGN Super Poster

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 955
Loc: Merrill, IA, USA
This is what I think the point of hacking is:
How To Be A Hacker

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#25916 - 09/08/03 07:07 PM Re: just a random thought
Asteos Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 217
Loc: Nadia
We spend way too much time discussing newbies
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#25917 - 09/08/03 07:14 PM Re: just a random thought
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
it's not about newbies. It's about......

intellectual debate.

so there.
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#25918 - 09/09/03 07:33 AM Re: just a random thought
Ntd Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 217
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
What is the point of hacking? I don't hack never want to. All i want to do is program games. I know why you hack but my question is what is the point?

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#25919 - 09/09/03 03:39 PM Re: just a random thought
jonconley Offline
UGN Super Poster

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 955
Loc: Merrill, IA, USA
they do not have definitive points. each person defines it for themselves. you can't nameone point to doing something as a reason for creating a game. you do not know why others do it, only you. so if you don't see a point in hacking, don't do it, no one has the exact same reason.

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#25920 - 09/22/03 02:53 PM Re: just a random thought
smartyhands Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 57
Loc: Montana Militant Camp
Quote:
Originally posted by Gollum:
ask a newbie why he hacks, or what is the point of hacking... "to learn how other systems work, and to get information on them." [deletia] that [is] an excuse to try to gain respect
As much disgust as I feel talking about n00bz (much empathy for Asteos), this problem is not, by any means, transient. Not in times where the traditional "free babysitter" has become 'pont-and-click' instead of TV. As a more experienced computer user, it seems very relevant to me.

I have a sense of what Gollum was trying to say, not exactly questioning their reasons for hacking, as much as pointing out... what? Slacker hackers.[edit, below] The kids who think they can point-and-click their way anywhere. (PAC?) (PAC-MAN!) (WAKKA-WAKKA!) That also seems to explain why none of them learn how to spell or write legibly. Why bother when you can just click away?

I think (paper tiger disclaimer) that many of them just want to destroy or vandalize something. It's the typical male (usually) angst/nihilism/rebellion, and I can't blame them for that. They want to violate someone else's security, but don't have the balls or brains to figure it out themselves, or to do it themselves. Being online gives them a false sense of security, of anonymity. They want to flex power that they do not possess...

And THAT, my friends, is why n()()bz r t3h 5ux0rz 0f d|x0rz, as the kids say nowadays.

Anyway... The best advice, the only advice...
RTFM

Edit, the proper term for a "slacker hacker" is script kiddie, and an alternate explaination appears at happyhacker.com, from Carolyn Meinel:

http://www.happyhacker.org/hoa/sample2.shtml

Quote:
There you have it. Script kiddies are often driven by jealousy, suspicion, pride, rivalry; a desire to taunt, bully, or get revenge; a thirst for power; motivated by greed or arrogance. In other words, they are pretty much like the rest of us, only maybe a bit more open about their motivations.


What I was trying to say is that this applies to a lot of kiddies who say they just want to "learn how systems work", excluding their own, an indication of Pure BullShit™. I think the above sample also answers the question of why many noobs are interested in hacking as well.

.o0 Ponders if returning to original question is "off topic"... 0o.
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#25921 - 09/22/03 05:32 PM Re: just a random thought
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by NTD .:
What is the point of hacking? I don't hack never want to. All i want to do is program games. I know why you hack but my question is what is the point?
I already stated in a post what the point is. The points that are most common for hacking. If those points have no real meaning to you then just understand that those points are meaningful to other people.
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