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#26109 - 08/19/02 07:02 PM Where to get answers about school
Cold Sunn Offline
UGN GFX Whore

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 574
Loc: us
This is probably just the typical "I don't like school" post so I'm sorry. Before I ask though, I wanna make sure you know that I do think there is a reason for the way our education system is now, but I haven't found it. I have heard alot of "School is important" from people that i really do respect, and so that makes me believe more that there is reasons behind learning Geography i will forget, math I will never use, etc. You guys know the deal.

So this is the thing, I would really like to find someone who can tell me the why's and all. I believe that the people in history are dead and gone, and that now and the future is what is important, because you can't change the past. I also think that no matter who says if you forget history you are doomed to repeat it, that it is our own history we need to remember, not theirs. I just remembered I wasn't gonna start ranting because everyone here has heard it or said it before.

I have asked teachers and my parents and whoever, but no one tells me an answer. Just, you will need it next year or someday in life...like on some gameshow. But they don't say where, for serious I mean. Just like, "If your boss says to wash every table number divisible by 3."

Basically, I am pretty sure there are real reasons out there, just no one wants to let you know. A kind of zen-true enlightenment, unleashing the dragon, being shown the matrix, that kind of way. Having to live it without a warning like every other generation.

I won't knock school anymore, if I found a good reason for the way it is now. Thanks to anyone that really does answer.

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#26110 - 08/19/02 08:38 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Infinite Offline



Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Canada eh
I have often pondered that exact same concept. When I was in highschool I was always after the teachers about the real world applications for the hideous amounts of useless kowledge that was rammed into my head. Like really, why the hell do I need to know how to use the quadratic equation or whether a certain poem was written in iambic pentameter or some other measure of syllable.

In all honesty I can think of only 2 valid reasons for learning this shit.

1. Knowledge is power. Any and every bit of useless info has the potential to come in handy at some point in your life. I say 'potential' because as we all know life is uncertain, and being prepared for anything is a tool that cannot be replaced.

2. Crossword puzzles. Have you ever tried to do the sunday new york times crossword puzzle? Damn is that shit hard! And it's the obscure bits of info that pass through your head that will make or brake you on these babies!

Now having said that, I still have no god damn use for that stupid quadratic equation!!

sum

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#26111 - 08/20/02 02:42 AM Re: Where to get answers about school
Moffesto Offline
UGN Supporter

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 730
Loc: Kuntucky
lmao, cross word puzzles. Im to lazy to do those so i guess i should just drop out now :x
_________________________
2 people can keep a secret as long as one is dead

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#26112 - 08/20/02 09:50 AM Re: Where to get answers about school
Curse Offline

Enforcement Admin

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 533
Loc: San Andreas
Neo had me a proof read a nifty "Why School Is Pointless" article, I'm surprised the administration didn't crusify him during class...

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#26113 - 08/20/02 05:38 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Cold Sunn Offline
UGN GFX Whore

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 574
Loc: us
lol i remember him asking for ideas on an essay...and if that is the one I am thinking of, then hehe yeah that was the same one. You know what sucks though, is I want to believe we need to do all this bs, but I can't find it. I agree sum, that knowledge is power and it is good to know things, but if i had the past few years of my life to do what I wanted, (which would include getting a job and such.) then I would spend alot more time learning useless facts I am interested in, at sites like HSW.

I don't mean that we should have all school thrown out of course, just changed drastically. Elementary school, I wouldn't mind much if it stayed the same. Because even though english has managed to only teach something new once every 2 years, it takes that long for some people. Diagramming sentences will never be worth anyone's time. But not to go off on that again. Middle school, well I think that middle school and highschool could be condensed into this one 2 year school. I think it would cut out on things like driver's ed, electricity and electronics, etc. but this gives you alot more time to do things on your own. Not to mention, 12 classes is more than enough. Any math past algebra 1 is totally useless unless you completely plan on using it, and then you know you will use it. I do not think it is a good idea to allow a kid to stay in school an additional year, to take extra classes, unless when he agrees to it he is then required to do it. I mean, if it isn't required for you to even be there then what will the punishments mean to you?

If i found the reason all this shit is important, then I would definately post it. It is so annoying that people love to keep doing something without any reason, ever. The way we can debunk our own psychological problems and still have them. So, ending, someone seriously explain it. I don't want to go on in school thinking there is no reason to be there, and especially not if there is a reason.

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#26114 - 08/21/02 12:42 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Imperial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 201
Loc: inside
"Game shows are designed to make us feel better about the random, useless facts that are all we have left of our education." - Invisable Monsters Chuck Palahniuk

What is learning but commiting a "fact" or "information" to memory? Especially if it's not applied or used in some way.

When you ask someone what they learned that day in school, you might as well ask them what they read or heard and commited to short term memory to regurgitate later on a test.

Teachers aren't payed much, because their jobs just aren't that important.
_________________________
I am the Lizard King
I can do anything

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#26115 - 08/21/02 04:22 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Cold Sunn Offline
UGN GFX Whore

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 574
Loc: us
Yeah, I am reading Invisible Monsters right now, finishing it soon hopefully, and I love that quote. I am not sure where to turn for books after Chuck Palahniuk, til Lullaby comes out I have nothing to read...maybe 1984. Any suggestions Imp?

I know I should give it more time, but maybe there isn't a real reason...

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#26116 - 08/21/02 04:52 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Imperial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 201
Loc: inside
Well, I assume you've read Fight Club...read Survivor it's a VERY good book, then there's Choke after that. And after just glancing at the back cover of choke (have it sitting around, just havn't gotten to reading it yet, just finished IM) it seems to be full of his dark humor.
_________________________
I am the Lizard King
I can do anything

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#26117 - 08/21/02 06:15 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Cold Sunn Offline
UGN GFX Whore

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 574
Loc: us
yeah, I was trying to read his books in order, but I read Choke before Invisible Monsters. I started with Fight Club of course because the movie was so awesome...and I did like the book better. Most books that I had read, was only because of school. But C. Palahniuk has such an awesome style I have been buying all his books. Do you know of any other writers with a style as good as his? not neccesarily similar, but you know.

Oh, and, still, anyone know why we live this way? School?

Edit:

"Because nothing is as good as you can imagine it."

errg...i can't remember any more quotes that really good, out of context. I love his devices though.

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#26118 - 08/24/02 05:04 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
dashocker Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/02
Posts: 524
Loc: Cornfields everywhere...
heh, ah yes. Useless school knowledge. But first, a story: One time in 5th grade there was this kid named Ian, and he was smarter than most everyone in his class. One day, the teacher started to teach them an 'easier' way to do multiplication. It involved groups of banannas. Well, Ian was so confused by this insanely tedious way of doing simple multiplication he just kept asking the teacher things like "Wouldn't this just be easier?" or "Why?" Well, after a while, Ian confused the teacher so much she let the whole class out to recess early. Go Ian!
Well, U will need things like math and english when u get out of school. Unless you want to look like a complete retard most of your life. School seems pointless because the Educational System has not come up with a creative and practical method to teach. So they come up with lame scenarios. BTW, you must not disregard history. It is important and very interesting at that. I mean really, it seems that all these great things happened in the past that u can read about and go 'wow, thats so cool.' But do you say that about computers or the Internet? For the most part, no. But future generations will look back and say 'wow, we still use that today' or 'hey, this decision helped save our way of life' or what have u. And they can also learn from past mistakes and use past sucesses as models for their future. So dont say school isnt important, teachers are very important. Think of how dumb you would be if u never went to school. But maybe im just biased because I like Jeopardy...

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#26119 - 08/24/02 06:56 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
thebluegiant Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 109
Bah, first: teachers.

The system is plagued by shitty teachers, yes. There are also plenty of good teachers; and the occasional, miraculous, great teacher. Don't knock them all just because you've had only the bad ones, deal with it and move on because when you stumble apon a great teacher . . .
You see, teachers aren't just there to impart textbook knowlege to you. No no, they're also there to help you grow as people. Things like work ethics, a concience, helpful advice for high school problems theyv'e seen a thousand times. A great teacher can supply these things, a good teacher can make you want to learn what they teach. A shitty teacher is just shitty.

Now, history:

History has several things going for it.
1) It's fucking interesting. Seeing how people lived, what they did, how nations were formed and destroyed; it's fascinating stuff.
2) It actually is helpfull. Now, not everyone needs to read a book on Balkan history, but everyone should (IMO) at least have a sketchy background on what's happening over there and why. It's important.
Reading about how the US was founded; it's fascinating. Learning about the process, the hypocracy, the genuine beliefs, that is interesting. And yes, it too can come in handy. It's helpfull to know on what ideals your country was founded, not those that it wasn't.
The list could go on, but it won't unless you need more examples.

Now, don't get me wrong, a have a whole list of complains about the school system in general and mine in particualar, especially against the bad teachers, but that's beside the point.
The school system is shitty, most of what they teach is not needed. The general fields they attempt to teach, though, are. Also, school helps other things, it 'attempts' to help kids grow as people. Most people need the quidance; if you don't, ignore it.

Bah, long rant. The short of it: good teachers are good, history is good, most of the school system is bad.
_________________________
"There is no end. There is no beginning. There is only the infinite passion of life."
--Fellini

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#26120 - 08/25/02 12:51 AM Re: Where to get answers about school
Cold Sunn Offline
UGN GFX Whore

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 574
Loc: us
Yay, some good replies.

About history, you said it was interesting and things, but see to me that means it is something that you should learn on your own if you are interested, and if you are I assume you probably do (aside from in school.) Using history as a model for success, I thought that was a very good point, and so far better than any others. (forgetting history and then repeat isn't the same thing to me, since it is the negative side of it which I think happens anyways.)

I didn't mean to knock all the teachers, so if it sounds that way sorry. I have had a few cool teachers, but it was the subject that I hated and the class.

Another good thing you pointed out was about teachers helping us grow and all that. I think that our family and people we are around could help us grow also, but, they might not do as good a job since they don't have to spend as much time around us. I think having jobs would also build work ethic. Truthfully, I can't think of a system I think would work best, i mean that I wouldn't criticize if we had it now. That is really annoying, but I am sure there is a better one, though I guess there is always something better.

One thing I have been wondering lately, is if replacing those big boards of people that make decisions, with a team of 2 guys. Where one guy comes up with the best plan he can, and the second guy tears it down as much as he can. So the first guy would have to keep making a better plan. I know that the boards of people are supposed to be able to come up with different ideas, so pick a guy that is good at thinking of plans, and one that is good at criticizing them. Not much to do with school, just saying.

shit, i was gonna say something else. I forget now. Anyway, tbg and dash sort of (well tbg covered it also though he was second...) those were the best reasons so far I have ever gotten. To me though, they aren't good enough. Which now, makes me think maybe we shouldn't change the whole system, just have a way out of it. The thing that has been pissing me off lately, is that this is my life, and someone else I will never meet is deciding how I have to live it, in so many ways I think are important including ways that I will never know. Heh, kinda sounds like I mean God...that is sort of sickening..nm. Just seems that to me, if I truly want to do something that wouldn't be hurting someone, (like people that want to kill people) that I should be able to do it. But again, I am sure most people here have said it and heard it before.

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#26121 - 08/25/02 10:17 AM Re: Where to get answers about school
unreal Offline



Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 860
Loc: KCRQ
Just wait guys...In my own experience, I never could figure out what school was for until I graduated.

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#26122 - 08/25/02 11:38 AM Re: Where to get answers about school
thebluegiant Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 109
Heh, you say that and then don't say what it's for? Shame on you, shithead.

And sunn, I didn't read your post yet, it's long. But I will, and I may even reply to it, too.
_________________________
"There is no end. There is no beginning. There is only the infinite passion of life."
--Fellini

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#26123 - 08/26/02 01:15 PM Re: Where to get answers about school
Imperial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 201
Loc: inside
(Kudos to the people that can make sense of this, prepare yourself because I skip around and ramble a bit. Seriously, big ass gold star for you)

Unreal: your argument assumes that we will share your experience and have our "urika" moment once we've graduated. It also assumes that school has purpose, and meets said purpose.

Would you agree that the purpose of school is to convey knowledge to students through teaching in the name of educating them?

Now, if school doesn't meet the parameters outlined above than what purpose has it had?
If we have knowledge forced upon us that we will never use again and never apply then were we really educated, did they meet the purpose?

The problem with our education system is that it's too broad. They offer us all of this knowledge and then demand from us what we want to do for a living, what we want to be. Then we have the task of looking at what we were good at or liked. So, say you enjoyed math, then you have to vaguely relate it to some perfession that intrests you that you've become intrested in because you've seen it on tv or heard about it.

There you go, you lose, the media has just picked a prefession for you. For years school has offered you all of those intangebles, bits of knowledge, and in the end we go for what is tangable...money, a big house, a nice car, a family. All of those years of being taught so much is forgotten, but with something tangeble you can hold it out and prove that you have it.

"On game shows, some people will take the trip to France, but most people will take the washer dryer pair" Chuck Palaniuk - Invisable Monsters

We ask when will we use this because we're afraid. We're afraid that we're waisting what little time we have with school...we'd all rather be washing our clothes...at least then we can prove we're doing something.

And look, history's great...I myself am very interested in it, but the truth is it's irrelevent. You can't change the past, you can understand it and decide not to do what someone did then...but those people are dead now, who cares.

Our time is in the present, in the future...we've heard it all before from our teachers and coaches, and psychogen said it best...they're just passing the buck.

The future's a threat.
_________________________
I am the Lizard King
I can do anything

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