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#5697 - 05/21/03 01:17 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
Drake Offline
UGN Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 129
Loc: Long Beach, California
yeah, now that i think more on that, i agree. one of the powers of the executive office is desrcibed as chief citizen. which means he's supposed to be chief among all the citizens, not just the Christian ones.
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The lover of inquiry must follow his beloved wherever it may lead him.
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#5698 - 05/21/03 01:45 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
At the same time, though, he has the right to bring God into his speeches. Whether you agree with his beliefs or not is irrelevant. Even having a super strict interpretation of separation of church and state doesn't matter. He is still an American citizen, with the same rights as the rest of us. Though you or I may not like it, it doesn't matter, because he is granted civil liberties just as we are, including the right to bring his beliefs into his speeches.

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#5699 - 05/21/03 04:18 PM Re: Under God - Out or In
jonconley Offline
UGN Super Poster

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 955
Loc: Merrill, IA, USA
I would agree, up to the point where you have to realize his position. He is the president, and when acting as a citizen, he is free to do whatever he wishes. However, when he is giving a worldwide media platform from which to deliver presidential speeches, that is neither the time, nor the place to be a "citizen". That is like saying the dollar bills and the bills floating through congress are able to have references and basis from christianity, simply b/c those are also created by "citizens". The president and politicians play many roles, and I don't think anyone has a problem with Dubya going to church if he wants. But that is a citizen, and not a president.

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#5700 - 05/21/03 07:57 PM Re: Under God - Out or In
BackSlash Offline
UGN's Resident Homo

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 599
Loc: TN
i agree that he has the right to bring his beliefs into his speeches, however, i feel that he should be conscience of the fact that he represents all the citizens in the united states, some of whom do not share his beliefs. another thought of mine was how his religous comments can be used against him by iraqi media. i imagine it wouldn't be hard to edit one of his speeches and portray him as a religous extremist and make the war in iraq seem to be a religous war. needless to say this could cause some ill feelings from devout muslims in the middle east.
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"It's better to burn out, than to fade away."

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#5701 - 05/21/03 09:32 PM Re: Under God - Out or In
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
Quote:
Originally posted by BackSlash:
however, i feel that he should be conscience of the fact that he represents all the citizens in the united states, some of whom do not share his beliefs.
What can one person say that everybody in the United States agrees with?

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#5702 - 08/19/03 12:47 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
SEC Surtr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 5
MAC sucks
*gets out a water hose and prepares to put out all the flames*
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If all else fails Thermite is your freind

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#5703 - 09/23/03 02:55 PM Re: Under God - Out or In
smartyhands Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 57
Loc: Montana Militant Camp
I thought Bernard Marx was a beta who looked like a delta... oops "Why not? Bernard's an Alpha Plus. Besides, he asked me to go to one of the Savage Reservations with him. I've always wanted to see a Savage Reservation." LOL!!! I live on a 'savage reservation' ROTFLMAO!! It's so primitive here that we have DSL but no dialup provider... [knock]

Also, EVERY single president of the US has been Christian. There was a big hoopla when Kennedy was elected because he was the first Catholic and all the previous (and subsequent) presidents were Protestant. LOL

And don't forget that money not only has references to "God" on it, but it also has masonic (aka freemason, which dubya happens to be as well as a bonesman) symbols... the "all-seeing pyramid", which ALSO happens to be the new symbol for the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

My prototypical two cents... and how do I make my links a different color with UBB Code™? Thanks in advance
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Back off, man! I'm a scientist... - Peter VenkMann

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#5704 - 09/25/03 03:58 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
Imperial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 201
Loc: inside
OUT- First step in removing the references and from the rest of our government


Hopefully some day no one will have to swear on a bible
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I am the Lizard King
I can do anything

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#5705 - 10/28/03 03:17 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
Red Mage Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/03
Posts: 209
Loc: here.
Why does it matter? I'm a Christian and I couldn't care less about it being in or not. My problem is wasting the time and money to remove all theological references. Also, everyone knew that Dubya was a Christian before he was elected, why do they suddenly care now? Did you think he would stop? (BTW, I think Dubya is a horrible president, and I don't care about his religion. All that matters is how he does his job.)
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Those who say do not know.
Those who know do not say.

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#5706 - 10/28/03 05:39 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
Kawarami Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 10
This issue shouldn't create another "division" in the United States. It is clear that there is a separation between Church (all religious bodies) and the State (the government). The United States should adhere to this and not make any associations with "God." This should not be a hard decision to make. One person in this thread mentioned that a majority of the people in the United States believe in God. Well, if the majority of people also believe that murder should not be punished, then does that make the majority right?

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#5707 - 10/28/03 12:50 PM Re: Under God - Out or In
Drake Offline
UGN Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 129
Loc: Long Beach, California
Red Mage - what if the money had references to Budha, or the Koran, or it said In Jehovah we Trust? You'd probably be upset that every time you paid for something you had to be reminded that you live in a country where another relegion is practically forcefed down your throat.
_________________________
The lover of inquiry must follow his beloved wherever it may lead him.
-Socrates

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#5708 - 11/07/03 11:07 PM Re: Under God - Out or In
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
I have read many of thoughts on this matter and, some I agree with, and other's I do not.


My view is that everyone has the same right to worship in whatever way they want, but they don't have the right to force everyone else to think the same way. This is a lesson the republicans refuse to learn. For those interested I do believe in GOD,
but not in organized religion.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5709 - 11/17/03 02:08 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
I agree with Disgruntled here too. God has no place in public.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5710 - 11/17/03 06:04 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
In reply to truthspreader,

I didn't mean religion had no place in public life.
I just believe that religion & government should never mix. Because as we have seen in other countries, no matter how well intentioned a religion is, eventually you end up with a taliban type government.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5711 - 11/17/03 11:59 AM Re: Under God - Out or In
IceMyst Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1449
Loc: Where ever Gizmo is
I agree with Disgruntled. Religion belongs out side of the government. look at how many countris have gone to war over religion. the most famous Isrial. The government there forces the majority religion on those of other faiths and every other month or so you heard about a bombing or a group of people dieing because of it. I really dont want to see that here in the US because of the fact that this country was founded on religious freedom.

Unfortunetly it's gotten to the point were certain religions are starting to run our country. Certain songs can't be played on the radio because they're anti-religious. certain shows are being taken off tv or with cartoons the original dialoge is changed because a few churchs dont like what's said in it. books are once again being banned in school because some kids religious fanatic parent believes that books that are based on imaginary things (ie Harry Potter and yes at one point even Little Red Riding Hood was banned from all schools in the US) are evil and not appropriate.

But what about those people who's religions are based on the mystical? that's persicution of religion with out people even realizing it. It's more than should it be just taken out of the government but it's spreads off into schools also.

As our constitution states "seperation of church and state". gee i wonder what that means... that religion is to be kept away from the government. The founders of this country knew even then that the 2 do now mix and they still dont today, even more so now then back then.
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