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#5909 - 03/28/03 05:53 PM Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
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Registered: 03/14/02
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Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
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#5910 - 03/31/03 01:09 AM Re: Communism sucks
Drake Offline
UGN Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 129
Loc: Long Beach, California
A funny book raggin on Communism: Utopia by Thomas More.
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#5911 - 04/02/03 05:25 PM Re: Communism sucks
Nagachaak Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 89
Loc: scandinavia
wonder if you all people knows what communism is...do you know it's not based on dictatorship? i've read some shit saying it's like direct democracy. as far as i know, ppl in here pretty much are a bunch of democrats, yes? please explain the differance.
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#5912 - 04/02/03 05:57 PM Re: Communism sucks
unreal Offline



Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 860
Loc: KCRQ
No one ever said it was a dictatorship. We know what it is, thanks.

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#5913 - 04/02/03 06:11 PM Re: Communism sucks
Nagachaak Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 89
Loc: scandinavia
then i must ask, wats wrong with it exactly? is it because of who the economy would be run? is it because the boringness of not getting to be special or maybe greed? i don't know. i think every country should be like switzerland.=)
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#5914 - 04/02/03 09:02 PM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
Why should every country be like Switzerland? Are you from Switzerland? If not, do you know how the economy and society works there?

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#5915 - 04/02/03 10:55 PM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
blah blah blah.. people in here democrats? yeah.. seems some are. but ya know what? communism is the most extreme form of socialism. democrats are usually liberal. (note: i said USUALLY not ALWAYS) liberals are socialists. so i don't know exactly what you were trying to say there with that. oh well.

fuck communism. fascism all the fucking way.
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"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"

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#5916 - 04/02/03 11:03 PM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
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Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
Well socialism is just complete liberalism. Communism is the idea that socialism can only be achieved through a violent overthrow of the government. Democracy (as in the Democractic party) is more moderate liberalism. pergism all the fucking way.

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#5917 - 04/02/03 11:53 PM Re: Communism sucks
unreal Offline



Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 860
Loc: KCRQ
Pergism is unrealistic. (har har)

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#5918 - 04/03/03 06:33 AM Re: Communism sucks
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
The reason why communism is so not cool is because the government controls everything. Sure, you may THINK it controls greed, cause people can't start up a business and make profits and stuff. However, what about the government? They're in complete control with no checks and balances like a democracy to help prevent corrupt governments. A select few are rich mother fuckers and the rest play out an uncreative life.

The other reason is because innovation is discouraged. Let's say you thought up some new invention - but it has a few quirks - but if you get it going, it'll be really great for people to use. However, in a communist society where's the motivation to create it? The government will seize control over the project and you don't get to see shit for it. So nothing happens and technology progresses much slower than it would otherwise.

That's the whole "free" mantra that americans like to chant. We are free to own our houses and own our cars and own our businesses and take our income and buy whatever we want, go wherever we wanna go. If you gripe about how much control the U.S. government has over our lives NOW... Big brother will be a heck of a lot bigger and pushy if it was communism.
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#5919 - 04/03/03 09:16 AM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
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Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
yeah. SR's reasons work too
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#5920 - 04/03/03 01:25 PM Re: Communism sucks
Nagachaak Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 89
Loc: scandinavia
check out the USA, the proof that you can't let the stupid people (read most people) loose. 11000 killings a year. canada, like 65 or something, or japan 30 or something. i don't think the american way works.cause it doesn't work for everybody.

sry if i'm out of topic.
communism really suck because of hard control. american democracy suck because of no control. 'cept of the media control.
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I am beyond God, I am human. I am the razorblade on the communion vein.

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#5921 - 04/03/03 04:12 PM Re: Communism sucks
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
yeah, you are off topic. Japan is under a democracy, not communism. Don't try to bring up facts that have nothing to do with the debate. That only has to do with gun control laws and various other laws, not to mention the way a person is raised, and the culture they grow up in.

Guess what, canada is a democracy too.

Don't diss the system just because there's 11000 killings a year. Totally irrelevent.
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#5922 - 04/03/03 04:15 PM Re: Communism sucks
SilentRage Offline
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Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
I hereby move the first topic to the debate forum.
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#5923 - 04/03/03 07:35 PM Re: Communism sucks
Cold Sunn Offline
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Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 574
Loc: us
I'm not positive, but I am pretty sure dictators use Communism to get power. It appeals to people in the lowest class, which is the majority it seems in the countries where communism took over. They tell the people about how everyone can be equal and the people with less like that.

I wouldn't say communism sucks, but it doesn't work. Also, I think saying communism is an extreme form of socialism is like saying socialism is a mix of communism and free-enterprise/democracy.

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#5924 - 04/03/03 09:01 PM Re: Communism sucks
Drake Offline
UGN Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 129
Loc: Long Beach, California
Quote:
Big brother will be a heck of a lot bigger and pushy
Dude, I'm pretty sure you just comitted thought crime.

And, I don't really keep up on Canada, but isn't their head of the exective branch a queen? who is also the queen of England? well at least right now it is.
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The lover of inquiry must follow his beloved wherever it may lead him.
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#5925 - 04/04/03 06:33 AM Re: Communism sucks
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
lol, don't you dare say that Canada is a monarchy! Or even Britain for that matter. The queen of england is only symbolic - a figurehead. She has no power. If the Prime Minister of England says "let's go to war" and the Queen of England says "uh, no". Guess what happens? The country goes to war - of course if the parliament agreed. It is a democracy.
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#5926 - 04/07/03 10:02 PM Re: Communism sucks
Drake Offline
UGN Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 129
Loc: Long Beach, California
I know it's a democracy, but she is the queen of england and canada at the same time, right?
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The lover of inquiry must follow his beloved wherever it may lead him.
-Socrates

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#5927 - 08/18/03 09:58 PM Re: Communism sucks
SEC Surtr Offline
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Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 5
Anybody here read 1984 by Orwell? Good book-probably my favorite-I think it indicates where Soacilism will eventually lead us- sure there's no crime and everybody is happy but thats because they dont know anybetter they've all been brainwashed so bad that when the government says ur happy they just are, this is demonstrated very vividly in the scene where there is a metting in the city center where they are parading prisoners of a country they have been at war with(there's only 3 countries) then mid speech the speaker "corrects himself" and states that he had said the wrong country they had been at war with and the prisoners where actually from the other country- then the crowd just accepted it and acted like the war had always been with that country and the other had always been there ally- very creepy
sry bout the long post
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#5928 - 08/25/03 07:56 AM Re: Communism sucks
Brett Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 9
Loc: Salina, KS
The Soviet Union is a prime example of dicatorial communism. The idea behind communism was a "society without money, without a state, without property and without social classes" or something like that so it would eliminate supposedly greed. Cuba and China's the only ones left to be Communists. Look where it's got them.

I wouldn't say Communism sucks, the 3 countries i mentioned above became corrupt which is may they failed(failing). The basic ideals such as how economic(trading -> import/exports) would be determined, a fair and balenced(democratic type) governing party with checks and balences, and so on would need to be refined and dealt with.

I read 1984 a few years ago. I would say that's a worst case senario. I was almost thinking that those other other countries did not exist, probably the underground either. Just another type of control so the government knows who to watch out for. I mean, for a country to be at war, gives them logical right to keep strict power over it's people(martial law) so to say. Instead of them not being at war, in which the people might actually start thinking why their life sucks and their govt isn't doing anything.


Just my 2 cents.

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#5929 - 11/09/03 08:04 PM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
Communism is the top 10% controlling everything,and the rest of th ppl get screwed.
American Communism is the church + the republicans controlling everything, and everybody else gets screwed.
Not much difference there.
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#5930 - 11/10/03 11:52 PM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
I'm just here to set you guys strait. Communism and socialism are purely democratic. Stalinism, the kind of socialism exhibited in the Soviet Union, was not democratic. But in their forms as put down by Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Gramsci, is entirely Democratic and egalitarian. Those of you who only look at the American propagandized version of history will obviously fail to see that. Even when Marx said the word dictatorship he meant it only in the sense that a social democracy will only serve the interests of the lower classes. As for violent revolution, that was the course of change in the late nineteenth century. Now we have routes for peaceful change such as demonstrations, elections, etc. So they were simply "victims of their time" when they said that violent revolution was the only course of change. When it comes to "Big Brother," you Americans have secret police state where you are watched without knowing about it. At any time you are outdoors, you had better suspect yourself of being watched. Cuba , on the other hand, is a success story for the third world. Castro has been delayed in bringing in democracy because of America's constant efforts to destabilize the Cuban government and economy. He has thus had to sacrifice rights for the sake of security. That is not a move I necessarily agree with, but is understandable considering the circumstances. Socially Castro has been a godsend to his people. Before the Revolution, Cuba had one of the lowest literacy rates and one of the highest poverty rates in the western hemisphere, as well as an almost nonexistent or inaccessible health care system. Now they have the Third highest literacy rate in the western hemisphere, a much more equal distribution of wealth, and basic health care is provided to all people, something even the great and invincible America has yet to grant its citizens. their economy grew by more than eight percent last year, much faster than the American economy. All this from a country that had ninety percent of its business interrupted by the American embargo after the Revolution. In an economic point of view, true communism as Marx designed would also not put a damper on the creativity and ingenuity of its citizens. If you wanted to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or an inventor nothing would stop you from becoming that and getting the higher education necessary just because you wouldn't be made more than anyone else. It would make you happy so you would do it because that's what you want to do. And even under communism you have to work so that way you can make your contribution to society. Without work you wont get paid. No pay for voluntary unemployment. The economics of Marxism are totally sound. As for political parties, there is no reason why parties that promote alternative ideas such as capitalism will not be allowed to exist and function. The basic nature of government will not change, but instead of serving the rich corporate interests, it would serve the interests of the previously exploited peoples. As for the government becoming corrupt with wealth, the government would not just sit on the money like the rich do. It would be able to use the profits as either a source of income other than taxes, or just give everybody in the country a slice of the GDP as their salary. So do your reading and you will be able to find the real answers, rather than just swallowing the government's elitist propaganda.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5931 - 11/11/03 12:08 AM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
Without freedom of speech, thought, and deed, even a paradise is still a prison, and castro is the warden.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5932 - 11/11/03 12:30 AM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
All those are guaranteed in communism. The only right you don't possess is the right to accumulate wealth and use it to oppress your brothers.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5933 - 11/11/03 10:25 PM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
In reply to truthspreader,

I think a million russians, and about a billion chinese would totally disagree with you on that last thought.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5934 - 11/12/03 02:41 PM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
ehh.. i still think communism sucks. i think anyone in the world should have the right to accumulate wealth if he works hard and earns it. why should one man work his ass off and get the same thing as another man who doesn't work hard at all? that is NOT fair at all. if a man wants to work hard he should earn what he deserves.

ya know.. communism reminds of dirty hippies,at least in one aspect. and you all know how much i hate hippies. they all preach about equality. equality is some dream that no one will ever attain. give it up already and work on goals that can be achieved. (i know hippies are all about the peace no war thing too, but communists generally are not. that's why i didn't mention that.)
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"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"

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#5935 - 11/12/03 07:51 PM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
In reply to Fleshwound,

I agree with you on that first thought. As far as hippies go I believe they had some good ideas, but
they went about trying to achieve them in the wrong manner.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5936 - 11/12/03 09:19 PM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
hehe.. i really don't see any merit to hippies ideas. doing drugs and sleeping around isn't too cool..neither is treating the vietnam vets like they are crap. but that is a whole other topic.
_________________________
"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"

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#5937 - 11/12/03 09:41 PM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
Quote:
Originally posted by truthspreader:
Communism and socialism are purely democratic.
How dare you make such a moronic statement and then go on to call us uneducated or simply swallowing propoganda.

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#5938 - 11/13/03 05:47 AM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
In reply to Fleshwound,

I was talking about some of their ideas on peace;
and as far as sleeping around and drugs go, I don't see much difference in todays society.

P.S. I support vietnam vets 100%.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5939 - 11/13/03 04:51 PM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
dun dun dun... perg is angry! perhaps he'll make the face for me! even though it's not an angry face... just haven't seen it for awhile.


yeah.. i know i was generalizing about hippies. just cuz i don't like them. we can stop talking about them now though.
_________________________
"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"

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#5940 - 11/13/03 05:55 PM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
Agreed Fleshwound.
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No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5941 - 11/13/03 07:13 PM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
Nah, not angry at all. That's just a dumb thing to say, that's all

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#5942 - 11/15/03 09:58 PM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
Again, if you would care to read any books actually written by the people who came up with the idea, you will learn that Stalinism is a total and complete corruption of communism. And if the Russians didn't like communism, even the perverted form, then why do over ninety percent of Russians say they wish for a return to the Soviet Union? And again if you knew what you were talking about you would know China's leaders sold themselves over to capitalism. Communism has saved the lives of millions around the world and made lives better for people in every country around the world in which even its perverted forms have been implemented. Look at Guatemala and see what unrestrained capitalism brings, or just look at the great depression. As for keeping what you earn, true communism gives you everything you need, while the vast majority of wealth and property are owned by a few people who do no real work. Sitting at a desk and meeting other rich people to congratulate each other for oppressing the poor masses around the globe. Those who actually make the products or perform the service are totally and completely dicked over.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5943 - 11/15/03 10:01 PM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
Excuse my error, it sould read: while in capitalism the vast majority of wealth and property are owned by a few people who do no real work.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5944 - 11/16/03 12:45 AM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
I hope you're not talking to me in those rebuttals. Because if you'll look back, I didn't discuss the problems or merits in communism or capitalism. I said that your statement, "Communism and socialism are purely democratic" was ridiculous.

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#5945 - 11/16/03 08:28 PM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
I was addressing you, and you were discussing the merits and problems of communism or capitalism in your statement.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5946 - 11/17/03 03:31 PM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
the idea of communism may be a decent one in the fact that everyone would be "equal". but you take the ideals of communism and put it into action in the real world and it just doesn't work. communism has NEVER been a successful form of government. look back through history. it hasn't not worked once.

communism allows for way too much corruption. the government officials have no one to answer too. just look to Russia since you mentioned it. there is so much organized crime there it's absurd. the mafia was pretty much running the show. while they still have huge ties to the government officials, it is not nearly as bad as it was under the communist form.
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#5947 - 11/17/03 07:36 PM Re: Communism sucks
Disgruntled Offline
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Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 181
Loc: Limbo
In total agreement Fleshwound.
_________________________
No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.

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#5948 - 11/17/03 07:50 PM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
truthspreader, I'd like to point that I didn't even make an argument on the subject. I just said that your statement was pretty stupid. So feel free to tell everybody whatever the hell you want, but don't give me any petty lectures on this bullshit, because frankly I don't give a fuck.

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#5949 - 11/18/03 01:54 AM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
By saying it was stupid you are making an argument. And if you don't give a fuck, why start the topic? The Mafia is a new thing in Russia. It did exist under communism but was hunted and left in the shadows. Now eighty percent of all Russian businesses pay 'protection' money to them. Yeltsin's shock therapy cut the legs out of the Russian economy. Their standard of living has fallen by more than half. And as I said earlier, Soviet 'communism' was Stalinism, not what communism really is. And no totalitarian system will last as long as the people know they don't have political freedom. America is different, they are a secret police state. And its people seem pretty dilusional about it.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5950 - 11/18/03 02:09 AM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
um.. the mafia being a new thing Russia? if by "new" you mean "been around for at least 60 to 70 years" then yeah.. i guess it would be "new".
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"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"

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#5951 - 11/18/03 03:41 AM Re: Communism sucks
pergesu Offline
UGN Elite Poster

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1136
Loc: Pimpin the Colorizzle
I started the topic because there was another thread in this forum about something completely different, and after a while, it led to people arguing about how communism sucks. So I created a new thread specifically for that. It's within my job context as a global moderator to ensure that threads stay reasonably on topic, and make accomodations for however they may branch out. I don't give a fuck about this subject.

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#5952 - 11/18/03 09:24 PM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
I ment mafia control. I said they had existed before then.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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#5953 - 11/19/03 04:30 PM Re: Communism sucks
fleshwound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 536
Loc: CO
but the mafia in Russia has been running the show for over 50 years. they are involved in everything over there.
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#5954 - 11/19/03 10:12 PM Re: Communism sucks
truthspreader Offline
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Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 26
Loc: dc
No only since Yeltsin's privitizations have they run the show. Before they were struggling and in the shadows.
_________________________
"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx

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