Other than cracking software, I can't think of a reason to learn to hack. Is it just a hobby? Can you make $$? Can you gain revenge? I know little about it which is why I must ask what the benefits are. What are the risks involved in certain hacking agendas? If a particular talent can gain me something then I will learn that but right now, I can't think of one. I may just hang out and shoot the shit with a pretty cool forum. Give me some ideas and my eyes may be opened.

Can I get my ex-wife??? lol....

hah! That's exactly why I don't make hacking a hobby. There's little reason to do it! At first it was just the coolness aspect. What you don't understand fascinates you sort of thing. The other coolness aspect is the power effect. People want to feel powerful. So, even well-intentioned "good" hackers may learn to hack simply cause it's complex and therefor a challenge, fun for that same reason, and gives ya a rush when you start doing wicked things. Just little things, like you would associate with white lies.

Some do move on to make a profession with it. I've known guys who's hacked for money. Those are the kinds of people where power plays a huge role, and a good challenge.

Some fall away cause it's too much trouble, they don't have the patience to learn. Some fall away after they've learned enough that they lose the fascination aspect since they now understand what hacking is all about, and therefor grow bored. Some may fall away from the same reason, but also realize that there's no purpose in it, no point. It's just a game. And people of that type value other things more than games.

Like me, when comparing it to programming.

So in my perspective, there's very rare occasion where I would even WANT to hack anything, cause it's rare that such techniques are needed. Programming is much cooler. IMO it's far more complex, and therefor holds more fascination for me. Not to mention it's incredibly useful.

Excellent response!

I would agree. I don't know much about hacking, but from what I can tell, I think it would get boring. Scan a system, find an exploit, run the exploit, same old thing. Programming though, it's always different. I have problems that I get interested, see if I can solve them with code. I find it's been very useful, too. In fact just last week I finished a calc test in less than 10 minutes and the next person came in at just under an hour. Instead of doing homework all week, I figured out the math and wrote programs on my calc to automate things for me. Useful, fun, and I know how to do the math so there's nothing wrong with it. I've also found that I learn a ton when doing any programming. For example, the servlet control panel I wrote, I knew maybe 15% of what I needed to to write it when I first began. I knew how to find what I needed to know though, so I was able to. In just this one project I probably doubled my knowledge, learning about server side processing, database access, encryption, optimization. Maybe I'm biased towards programming because I know how to do it, but I think that it's a hobby that doesn't have any limits.

its why hackers are commonly people who dont' have anything better to do. Some even get a thrill out of a seek of knowledge. Hell, we made a program for owning YaBB boards, and only used it for a week lol...

Hackers are not just poeple without anything better to do. The people I know are busy people. I am a very busy person, I don't have time for anything.
The reason hackers hack is for knowledge. But in learning about hacking, you learn about security, and hackers often go into computer security related jobs (as I intend to).
How does $100,000 a year sound?

I said commonly, I didn't say all. I personally am a quite busy person, I bairly have time to myself as is.

You need to have school degree's, if you ever saw my resume you'd see a long list of skills, but without any certificates its quite worthless.

Businesses seem to like to think that education is built on degrees as opposed to what one can learn on their own.

If you go and look at the curent pricing for differant degree programs you'll see that they get quite high. The more you ahve the better chance you have at differant places (MCSE, A+, Cisco, Server 2, etc).

Paragon, perhaps you should think and read before you get all anal retentive about something that I state?

Most of the hackers that I know hack when they don't have anything better to do, it is when they have the time to do everything. And I'd never call you a hacker, no offense but you couldn't hack your way out of a paper bag.

Good luck on that $100,000 a year, you do realise that working up to that will take quite the bit of time. Bu the time that you get the work experiance equal to make that much you'll be 50, funny how retirement runs about 60.

I know you said 'commonly' I was just making sure he doesn't get the wrong idea. I wasn't being anal retentive. My comment was directed at the guy who started the thread, not you.
I'm getting certifications. I've done my studies for several at college, and I'm heading towards a CCIE Security certification. With that, the average salary is around $115,000 a year. So I know what you're saying. I know it takes time, and you need experience. I plan to get it. Considering I've only been into computers for a couple years, I think I'm doing alright.
Can't hack my way out of a paper bag? WFT? You don't know how much I know or what I know about.
You'd never call me a hacker? I don't know that you even know what a hacker is. I was a hacker before I ever touched a computer.

who cares what hacker means. There's lots of valid definitions floating around out there. Don't try to constrict anybody to a single meaning. Sure, it'd be simpler that way, but that's just not the fact of things.

If Gizmo feels you don't match HIS definition of hacker, then you can just deal. I personally feel uncomfortable if people consider me a hacker, but I can see their point. I've hacked, so therefor to some I must be a hacker. Makes perfect logical sense though I disagree with it. I just be sure they're clear on what I DO and DON'T do rather than what I "AM", then all is good.

There are three kinds of hackers...the white hats-jedi knights Gray hats-punk kids Black hats-the crackers who many people think are the only kind of hacker

Computers are the future as well as power, the more you know about them the better of course the best job in my opinion is the security consultant. You can get megamoney as a hacker working to protect systems from hackers. Thats about how it works. Being a good hacker is quite hard to do it's mostly time consuming and problem solving. Programming is more fun than hacking a system and like SR said there is very little occasion where you should hack someone. could you get your x-wife back? of course, i have two main interests computers and martial arts i dont intend to hack anyone, and i dont intend to kill anyone with my bare hands but its always good to know that you can i guess its a power trip

Well, a hacker being someone who hacks makes sense, but just because you have hacked, doesn't mean you do hack, so you're right, having hacked doesn't really make you a hacker.
I believe there is a correct definition of what a hacker is, though mine may not be exactly right, I'm fairly confident I'm pretty close.
"who cares what hacker means."
Generally, hackers care what it means, because people usually get it wrong, thinking hacking is about breaking the law and hacking people's computers illegally, etc.

If you'd like to read what I think a hacker is and what hacking is about, here's a link:
http://www.hackingdynasty.com/site/texts.php?sect=hacking&id=14

"Well, a hacker being someone who hacks makes sense, but just because you have hacked, doesn't mean you do hack"

and if I do still hack every once in awhile does would THAT make me a hacker? I don't consider myself a hacker, but people may think so if they want.

"I believe there is a correct definition of what a hacker is"

You're still convinced there's a single definition? If there's any definition then a dictionary would have it. Let's take a looksy at what it has to say:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hacker

hacker (the first search result)
1) One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
2) One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.
3) One who enthusiastically pursues a game or sport: a weekend tennis hacker.

I consider number 1 to be the original definition of hacker in reference to computers. The meaning has since become more widely known as definition number 2. You'll find in later search results on that same link where they say that definition number 2 is discouraged and that it is really called a cracker.

It failed to mention the also widely prevelent idealistic abstract mental definitions of hacker - which I consider to be an indulgance of wanting to make a 'hacker' something next to godliness.

check out this other definition:

"One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming."

By golly, under that definition I fit the word 'hacker' to the T.

How can you say there's any RIGHT definition for the word hacker? How? It's proposterous. It's narrow-minded, it's limiting. Very few words have only one meaning. So just admit to yourself - if not to me - that there's more than one definition of hacker! There's the computer buff hacker, there's the criminal hacker, and then there's the oh so favorite godly hacker. All definitions are correct!

I think the definition of a word has to do with the popular opinion of the group your addressing. If you talk to an average joe, a hacker is a computer criminal, if you go to a linux users group, a hacker is a great programmer. At first, i think a mixture of boredom and the quest for power leads people to hacking. Later on, they either drop out realizing how much dedication is involved and how time consuming it is, or their love of knowledge and technology and their new found respect for it leads them to become programmers and computer security profesionals. The deffinition of computer criminal came about when these people with this great love of technology become upset and use there talents for illegal activities and since thats mostly what you hear about from the media that's why that has become a popular definition.

ebmm no one here is going to convince you to become a hacker. I don't think there should be any convincing or eye openning involved. It's something that just comes naturually through your love of technology and what you can do with it.

Well guys i have to say i agree with SR there are several correct meanings to the word "HACKER"