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No, no projects. I mean I know(in some cases knew-they're getting old), and am friends with these people.

I've heard the stories, seen the tatoos.
Seen the pictures of friends and family never seen again.

I don't need to read any reports or documents or projects to know the truth fleshy, I simply listen to those that were there.

You're not saying that they're part of the conspiracy too now, are you?

Oh, and you want specifics. One woman, one who I've seen in tears talking about this was at Aushwitz. The place where your 30,000 died from disease because they were criminals. She was a child, her sisters were children, her parents had committed no crime.
Her parents died.

Want more?


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How about all the HItler debate gets put into a new forum. And rather than all you that care about this, not using facts. Each person take the facts that you know (LIST YOUR SOURCES) and then allow the other person to refute them. I am not interested in this, but its obviously getting OT in this thread and seems that some of you feel strongly about this. So take it elsewhere, debate it, give sources.evidence, (TBG list what was told by whom and where) and see where it comes out. Hell, it might even end up being constructive?

Windead: Sorry to hear what happened. I wouldn't report it though, b/c cops have too much power. It is just something about government that sucks sometime. The fact is, if you have enough things happen, keep them documented, have all your friends document it, and then give it to various news sources.

Think, the government doesn't like to make itself look bad, and by admitting what you did, it would. However, media loves to expose things like this, so you get all the "evidence" together and give to alot of media outlets. It becomes public knowledge and then the government has to do "Spin control" and go after the police, b/c not doing so, would make them look bad.

Congratulations, you have just turned the tables on them.

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jonathon, you read the same stuff i did. you know i'm right. laugh

BG: sorry to hear about your woman that was in tears. really too bad because people were never gassed Auschwitz or anywhere else. You say her parents died.. how? you didn't mention how they died. Don't try to tell me that they were gassed, because it is impossible. There was no way any of the supposed "gas chambers" actually could have been just that. There have been many reports on this by gassing experts and by people who were there. Yes, even most of the Jewish people that were there admit that the gassings never happened. One woman even said she knew nothing of the gassings until she was released and heard about it years later!


you're right. a lot of the people in those prisons hadn't commited any crimes. they were exiled from Germany because they werre Jewish. Hitler didn't want the Jews in his country. So, they were "exported" to Poland and put into the camps. But then again, there were actual criminals that were also in those prisons. Those were the ones that were murdered.


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Hitler was not a good leader. Hitler was a [censored] sour painter that took advantage of a vulnerable and desparate country. It doesn't [censored] matter whether they used gas or ovens, they were murdered. People that defend Hitler are usually full of [censored]. [censored] that.

I am so cool and smart because i say things like "bypass inversion."

Reason enough to go to WW2: Hitler wanted world domination and was killing people. If no one did anything the world would be alot worse.

No one has all the facts, so don't [censored] say that you do. According to the State of the Union Address, Iraq has had 12 years to disarm. They found new nuclear warheads, sarin (sp?) gas, and anthrax. I doubt that Saddam was part of the AlQaida network, but that doesn't mean he isn't evil.

fleshy- i like you, but please don't do that [censored].

Now, let's cut this hitler-stalin-bush bullshit and get back to the topic.

I think we value human life more and less. On the morning news before school, there are clips of a local woman who was in a car wreck, her dead body and everything. Stories about people being raped or kidnapped. Before I go to school, I see this. This is why I stopped watching the news.

We also try to save people that have terminal illnesses. We are taking the power away from natural selection.

We talk about how crazy it was that people would kill people they thought to be witches. And we think it is crazy that people killed people because they thought they were greedy and caused a depression.

No one can think entirely for themselves, because we are influenced by the things we see and hear. Otherwise, we wouldn't have any opinion period, it is ridiculous to think you can have an opinion on something you don't know about at all.

Aside from tbg and Learner, I thought most of the posts here were a waste of time to read. Most, not all.

I think that society is about as bad and good as it has almost always been, just in a bigger ratio. We can't cut out the good just to get rid of the bad. I think that is why there is a hell if there is a heaven. There has to be a reason for it to impossible for everything to be good without any bad somewhere else.

People are dying of aids and starvation in Africa while people here are buying condoms to keep from having children (as well as prevent the spread of std's) and suing fast food companies for making them too fat (thank God those radges lost). By here I mean America. It isn't some fantastic country, but it is pretty bad other places to make up for it.

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heh, I think Cold Sunn at at least one good point there. fleshwounds stance does seem kinda foolish.

(paraphrased)
"oh, sure, a lot of jews died in concentration camps but they weren't gassed, so that's ok"

"yeah, a lot of jews were put in concentration camps but a lot of them were criminals so that's ok"

"it was only the criminals that died in concentration camps." (ahum, yeah, it's a crime to be a jew)

Ya know, I gotta be fair. I have lots of respect for Hitler. But there's no way in hell I'm going to defend his actions (*simpering voice* he was a victim of bad childhood and environment...)


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I tend to disagree. I originally disagreed with Fleshwound, but I read the sources and compared the evidence, and yes Jews died. But the numbers and the methods were exagerrated. And that wouldn't seem like a big deal but it was 1,000s and not 1,000,000s. And alot of the deaths were from a disease that was going around. Not only that, but Hitler put the people in a separate camp so they wouldn't infect other Jews. And it wasn't just jews. Anyways, read the Holocaust Revisionist topic in OFFTOPIC and check out the links, and then reply.

I understand what you ppl are saying, and I was saying the same things first also. But your theories and facts are largely coming from what ppl have seen and been taught. Look for yourselves.

And no, I am not trying to make Hitler out to be a saint. But he sure as [censored] wasn't the antichrist either. He simply didn't want Jews in his country, so he moved them to Poland.

And world domination? A bad thing? Agreed maybe, but I know someone else who is taking out leaders of other countries and appointing ppl he can control. The United States. We have done it for years.

All I am saying is check out those links. Refute them with evidence, not opinion.

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I have never cared about exaggerations. Shoot, in this case, the exaggerations were probably just to get people upset over the atrocities that DID happen. And atrocities, of course, DID happen. So point-to-case, Hitler had bad motives, and did bad things. That guy Musolovich (spelling) from kosovo did much the same thing. "purifying" in brutal ways. Sure a lot was deported, but a lot was also murdered. He's being crucified too. There's a distinct difference between people like them, and people like the US.

So why the heck are you comparing?

If every organization was judged by the bad things they did, then we can all go to hell. But I prefer to see the good that also results from those same organizations and balance them out. When things are weighed, US comes out a lot better than hitler, bin laden, iraq, north korea, etc...


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Another thing the US does is put in a mostly democratic and hopefully stable government to replace the one they had before. If we didn't do this, they would go back to the same shitty gov't with a new leader. I am sick of hearing how the US needs to stay out of everyone's business. I think there should be more countries that can say, "Hey, stop [censored] doing that." Whose policy was it, Britain? that decided they would ignore the Germans until they did something "worthy of war" and it turned out to be a bad idea. I am against war, but not enough that I would want my country to stay neutral all the time while some country starts destroying others.

One thing I would have respect for, is Hitler's ability to manipulate the crowd and take advantage of the situation. The reason I don't have respect for him is because he is evil. I don't respect someone's ability to rape, but I might respect their ability to m4d s3chs0r.

Ever watch shows like Iron Chef, anime, or Spanish television? I was thinking, they look really overacted and silly, the kind of thing a kid would really enjoy. It's like body language and infliction in someone's voice and everything about acting is a drug, and they need something stronger. I think that the Japanese culture is probably more fast paced than the American, but this might just be from stereotypes. Doesn't most technology that's supposed to make our lives easier come from Japan? So if that is the direction we are moving in, I imagine alot of crap that's just way over the top. Loud everything, exaggerated expressions, flashing lights. Remember the minimum speed limits in F451? I can see that happening in the US, especially since Germany has the autobahn. But I still the think we are going to go up as much as we go down in the future.

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hahahahaha, windead you are too funny. yes, everyday i go to school with a a gigantic rock on my back and move rocks back and forth all day. no learning. no fun. no social interaction. just rock moving. thats how i want it to be for my children, too. im sure they would enjoy the american oppression as much as i do. NO WAIT! ILL FIGHT IT! I'll trade in all my clothes for a jacket with an anarchy sign! I'll also get an insane hair cut! This will show my defiance!
Just because you are different than other people doesen't make you a rebel. Protests occur every week against the war in Iraq on the lawn of the court house in my city. No one is shot, beat up, or sent to jail. People all over the country protest every week. And not just "hippies" either. Thousands protest every week. Yet it doesen't matter because our President does not care about his people at all. He's full of [censored]. He's an idiot. The fact he keeps prolonging the decision and ACTING like he isn't going to attack if Iraq forks over the weapons is putting our economy in the [censored] hole(try proving you don't have something that someone else accuses you of having for a fun, educational excercise). BTW, war isn't going to help our economy. The reason war helps an economy is because it creates jobs. BUT GUESS WHAT? We have enough weapons, aircraft, etc. all ready to take out Iraq. So no jobs, no economy boost. Your story about your jacket just proved my point that one person can't make a difference, btw.

This is way too [censored] long so I'm going to end with a side-note:

Fleshy, as much as I respect you, I simply cannot agree with you. Hitler was an excellent leader. So was Clinton. But he will be remembered for for cheating on his wife, not for creating a budget surplus, working for Mid-East peace, etc.
Now Hitler was an obviously better leader than Clinton, but Hitler will always be remembered for the Holocaust, that's it. And now I have to hate you because you are one that said the Holocaust didn't happen. Oh yeah, he only killed like 6000 people at Auschwitz, sure. No women or children were ever killed either. Just men who were criminals. Give me a break. He just made every Jew he conquered wear a star of David, and ship them to ghettos for decorative and re-location purposes. It's all a conspiracy! Please. I'm sure all those photos of piles of bodies and of men who weigh 50 lbs were created using PhotoShop too...

(HAHAHAHA, on a different note, Fleshy what the hell? One, the "doctor" that checked people at the camp was determining whether they could work or not. Those who couldn't(old, sick) were killed.
Second, the movement of jews was because of allies coming to liberate them. They ran for miles, starving, in freezing cold with no clothes. I think you should seriously consider reading "Night" by Elie Wiesel. I thought you were being legitimate at first, but those things you are saying sound like they are coming from some redneck confederate white-supremacist website. Its just a permutation of truth. I know my version is too...blah blah blah)

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