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#4708 - 07/21/04 01:37 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Gremelin Offline
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Jon, they can only work Part Time in the US; generally 20-28 hours.

I want less taxes, no social security and all the mexicans and blacks who don't contribute and just get wellfare for their 90 brats need to be expedited back to their originating country (or their ancestor's at least).

Did you know that about 80% of the mexicans on wellfare are illegals? My mom worked at the "child help" place, the people who monitor you and your kids so that you don't end up killing them... Most of the people being "watched" where mexicans, no green card, 5-20 kids... Sickens the shit out of me...

I'm not racist against mexicans, i know they can do anything a white man can do, however a large sum are so fuckin lazy that they can't even keep awake at work... (I've noticed from experiance at callcenters that the people more abpt to fall asleep on the phones are the mexicans who get paid more a their "multilingual")...

They may be "the same evil" but kerry has stated:
1. He wants it so anyone, even a 12 year old, can get an abortion; without their parents even knowing.
2. Shools (as low as grade 3) can hand out birth control pills and the morning after pills to students; without parental permission.

Kerry seems to think that parents have no rights with what their brats do; I'm sorry, if it's a part of me I have every right to ducktape it to a bed for 9 months then adobpt the kid out...

The economy sucks right now, wanna know why? All of our businesses are moving to India and Pakistan (some even mexico) due to cheaper labor... That's why we're fucked...


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#4709 - 07/21/04 02:27 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Red Mage Offline
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Quote:
The economy sucks right now, wanna know why? All of our businesses are moving to India and Pakistan (some even mexico) due to cheaper labor... That's why we're fucked...
That's due to a mixture of two things: Americans demand fucking high wages, and the taxes take away half of it.

Quote:
Kerry seems to think that parents have no rights with what their brats do; I'm sorry, if it's a part of me I have every right to ducktape it to a bed for 9 months then adobpt the kid out...
You know.. I think I'm gonna have to agree with you Gizmo

Quote:
Did you know that about 80% of the mexicans on wellfare are illegals?
I don't have a problem with Mexicans or Blacks in our country, the problem is them coming just to get on welfare. I personally don't like welfare, but I think that if you immigrate, you shouldn't be eligible for welfare..

Quote:
This whole pro-life/pro-choice situation bothers me. To me it seems that Democrates should be pro-life while republicans should be pro-choice. I mean Republicans want less government less taxes and people to take responsibility for thier actions. They are. They are choosing to take responsibility and terminate thier pregnancy instead of creating more of a burden on the state. While Democrates don't mind creating more taxes and governmental institutions to take care of the single mothers and welfare recipients.
The question is really whether you think that a fetus is alive. I don't understand (just about) everyone in each of those parties seems to agree on it..

Quote:
red mage; I think you fail to understand what child labor laws prevented. Its not stopping kids from working at McDonalds after school. Google some stuff on the internet yourself and read about the types of jobs and hours/conditions children endured before such laws.
But it is stopping kids from working at McDonalds after school. Couldn't they at least specify that you can't work at a factory or something? In Colorado at least, I can't get /any/ part-time job until I'm 16 and I can't work more than 20 hours a week until I'm 18(so the only job I can do is yard work, lawn mowing, ect).


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#4710 - 07/21/04 03:13 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Mage:
That's due to a mixture of two things: Americans demand fucking high wages, and the taxes take away half of it.
I dissagree, we demand higher wages because the cost of living is a bitch and a half. Working $8/hr for 40 hours a week you have at MAX $1000 per month after taxes; that covers rent ($400-$1500 depending on where you're at) and hopefully food. They want lower wages? Lower taxes and cost of living costs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Mage:
You know.. I think I'm gonna have to agree with you Gizmo
See, at least bush is anal about abortions, never have to worry about that there ...

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Mage:
I don't have a problem with Mexicans or Blacks in our country, the problem is them coming just to get on welfare. I personally don't like welfare, but I think that if you immigrate, you shouldn't be eligible for welfare..
Agreed, if you wheren't born here you don't qualify to run for president, wtf should you be able to drain our economy? They come here for "better chances of making a life", then they sit and drain up public resources because their too fuckin lazy to do anything but have sex and shoot people (I'm mainly talking California; have you ever BEEN to socal? Jesus Christ)...

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Mage:
The question is really whether you think that a fetus is alive. I don't understand (just about) everyone in each of those parties seems to agree on it..
Ask a scientist if a worm is alive... It moves, it thinks, it consumes, etc... A fetus moves from day one, it technically thinks as it's a programmed response from the egg and sperm, and it consumes as it takes resources from the mother.

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Mage:
But it is stopping kids from working at McDonalds after school. Couldn't they at least specify that you can't work at a factory or something? In Colorado at least, I can't get /any/ part-time job until I'm 16 and I can't work more than 20 hours a week until I'm 18(so the only job I can do is yard work, lawn mowing, ect).
I mean no offence here towards you; but if the choice is between a minor who has a place to live and a person on their own, in this economy, the minor can go fuck himself ...


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#4711 - 07/21/04 03:45 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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dashocker Offline
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Cornfields everywhere...
Couple points: I missed the part where African-Americans decided to come to this country. Oh wait, they didn't...Gizmo, didn't you just complain about Mexicans being a danger to their kids? Then you want to duck-tape yours? The points about Kerry's views of birth control/abortion, etc. I'll pass over. Red Mage, maybe it's because of *state* laws you are unable to get work? Here's a link: http://www.coworkforce.com/LAB/ColoYouthOpportunityAct.pdf
I do agree with you on one point: if you don't pay your taxes you should not be able to use the resources intended for those who do.

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#4712 - 07/21/04 06:20 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Gremelin Offline
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To have them be able to live with themselves later on, yes I would ductape my kid to a bed for 9 months.

And actually, the black people sold the black people to us, we didn't just go over to africa and threw them on a boat. People who do bad things are basically property to those theive fucked over in some countries... Then they get sold to white people, fed, beaten a little, and have a secure job and place to sleep...

My big beef with black people isn't so much that they where slaves... My beef with black people are those who shit and bitch about slavery when they where never directly effected; their ancestors where. That an the fact that some blakc people now are getting cash due to their ancestors being slaves...

Now, I may come off as an asshole on this topic, however... If you aren't the one who was a slave, why the fuck are we giving you cash for your ancestors being one? That's just another set of cash set aside for yet-another group of people too fucking lazy to get a job that could better be used for education.


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#4713 - 07/21/04 07:10 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Red Mage Offline
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Quote:
Agreed, if you wheren't born here you don't qualify to run for president, wtf should you be able to drain our economy? They come here for "better chances of making a life", then they sit and drain up public resources because their too fuckin lazy to do anything but have sex and shoot people (I'm mainly talking California; have you ever BEEN to socal? Jesus Christ)...
I don't mind immigrants running for president, I mean, it doens't make much of a difference. What I think is stupid is that they don't even have to green cards to get welfare, I mean they're not even here legally, why are we paying them!? The problem with Cali is that so many people are on welfare that they outvote the minority (which happens to be the fuckin' rich white people).

Quote:
I mean no offence here towards you; but if the choice is between a minor who has a place to live and a person on their own, in this economy, the minor can go fuck himself ...
Absolutely true. I just wish they'd stop acting all high and mighty saying that they're doing it to "protect us".

Quote:
Couple points: I missed the part where African-Americans decided to come to this country. Oh wait, they didn't...
That was so long ago, the only reason it's an issue is because they're lazy. Don't get me wrong, I think any group that had an opportunity to bum money off people would do it, whether they're white, black or mexican.

One last thing, Gizmo, have you ever thought of getting your child (not sure if you have one, or if this is hypothetical) a chastity belt (the chick in Men in Tights wears one)


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#4714 - 07/21/04 08:47 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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lol; Yeh I'll agree that it's stupid about letting minors work full time; it's their time; should be their decision.

Agreed about the laziness ...

Actually I have, however it's illegal so not a possiblity.


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#4715 - 07/21/04 09:04 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Red Mage Offline
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Wow, anyone else notice how me and Gizmo started out this thread cussing at eachother and it ended up with us agreeing?


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#4716 - 07/21/04 09:20 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Gremelin Offline
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ahh shaddap...


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#4717 - 07/21/04 09:53 PM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Responses to what you wanted done on certain issues Gizmo, seemingly fits well with Libertarian Party's platform

IMMIGRATION
Quote:

However, the answer to this problem lies not in cutting off immigration, but in cutting the services that immigrants consume. The right to immigrate does not imply a right to welfare -- or any other government service. Moreover, this is not simply a matter of saving tax money. The Libertarian Party believes that most government welfare programs are destructive to the recipients themselves. Thus, immigrants would actually be better off without access to these programs.
Not to mention the LP's ideas to reform and remove welfare altogether.

TAXES
Privatize and cut taxes, get rid of income tax, stop bailing out industries, replace social security with private investments.


EMPLOYMENT:
Quote:

# Phase out all direct and indirect subsidies to foreign nations, foreign companies, and foreign citizens.
# Eliminate the double taxation of corporate profits.
# Eliminate regulations and mandates that make companies less competitive and cost jobs.
# Unilaterally end all domestic subsidy programs, trade barriers and tariffs.
# End government economic meddling that results in depressions and recessions that destroy jobs.
PRIVACY:
Quote:
"The individual's right to privacy, property, and right to speak or not to speak should not be infringed by the government. The government should not use electronic or other means of covert surveillance of an individual's actions or private property without the consent of the owner or occupant. ...

We oppose all restrictions and regulations on the private development, sale, and use of encryption technology. We specifically oppose any requirement for disclosure of encryption methods or keys, including the government's proposals for so-called "key escrow" which is truly government access to keys, and any requirement for use of government-specified devices or protocols. We also oppose government classification of civilian research on encryption methods. ...

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#4718 - 07/22/04 02:40 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Red Mage Offline
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I think Gizmo does agree with most (if not all) ideas in Libertarianism, he just doesn't think that there's any point to voting libertarian because the 1st parties always win.


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#4719 - 07/22/04 02:48 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Gremelin Offline
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Some; but if you think about it, every vote counts in the long run; look at how close our last election was... Just a few votes could sway it in either direction... My motto in this reguards: if you know it's going to be close between party 1 and 2, don't vote for party 3; vote for who you feel would make the better of party 1 and 2.


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#4720 - 07/22/04 05:52 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Red Mage Offline
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The problem is that there's enough people who /don't/ support parties 1 & 2, but think there's no choice, that a 3rd party could win if people would just try.


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#4721 - 07/22/04 07:31 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Defcon Offline
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No, the problem is that 3rd party canidates are a waste of time and just a bunch of crap. Seriously if some progressive 3rd party canidate actually won the election guess what he could do... jack fucking shit... thats right the 3rd Party President would be powerless cause while you were whining about your loser canidate for President, the House and Senate filled up with Democrates and Republicans, and that's where the real power is, they can just sit there and shoot down everything this President tries to push, unless he wants to be a Veto President, so basically yeah go ahead try, it ain't gonna happen.


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#4722 - 07/22/04 09:10 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Shinobi Offline
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Well I think I am going to be voting for a 3rd party canidate. Not because there is one I like, or because I think they will win. Mainly because I think that there needs to be more than 2 partys in the running, because if another party gets a certian percentage of the popular vote than they will get funding and be regonized like the republician and democratic partys. Then maybe we can get someone worth while in office instead of everyone voting for the lesser of 2 evils.


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#4723 - 07/22/04 12:37 PM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Defcon is right about how the president would have little power, but it's more of a symbol than anything else. We are working on getting Libertarians in the house and senate (at the moment there's only one, and he's running as a *republican*) There are more in state government, but we're working on it..


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#4724 - 07/22/04 06:35 PM Re: who will you vote for ?
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jonconley Offline
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shinobi is correct, percentages equal more funding and exposure. Now, I can assure you if a third party was elected president (or even local/state as there have been), they deal with democrats/republics and bring issues to the table and solutions that would not otherwise be raised.

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#4725 - 07/23/04 10:37 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Defcon Offline
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Yes Jon, but the problem is that the Republicrats will have the President over a barrel because they still wield the power in the Senate, House of Representatives, and the Supreme Court. They could easily scoff at the President's ideas, override his vetos (which they CAN do)... THe President won't have anyone backing him up. Looking at history we can see that the President's party usually (and I say usually) backed up his decisions and policies in congress. People in this country for the most part DO NOT vote by Canidate, they vote by party, many Republicans voted Bush because they didn't want a Democrat in office, not because they didn't like Gore or were swayed by Bush and his position on issues.

Maybe this is where Castro got it all right, he's the only world leader still in power after decades of defying and thumbing his nose at the US, and his people are actually happy, well those in Havana, but we still have more homeless and poor people, just ours have no where else to go.


"Remember how much fun you had shooting spitwads at the teacher in seventh grade? Imagine applying that kind of attitude to actually fucking with Mitsubishi!"
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#4726 - 07/29/04 01:19 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Defcon Offline
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508 or 207
I love making debates grind to a screeching halt.


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- Jello Biafra
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#4727 - 07/29/04 09:07 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Gremelin Offline
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Hey, i closed it twice, it always comes back...


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#4728 - 08/10/04 08:12 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Mage:
Ah, I get it. I still think it should be common sense tho..
I agree, most things should be common sense, but laws are read verbatim, so common sense needs to be spelt out.


Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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#4729 - 08/11/04 06:26 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Red Mage Offline
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Well murder laws say that it's illegal to kill someone, so wouldn't an unborn baby count as "someone"? :p


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#4730 - 08/11/04 10:05 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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dashocker Offline
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Cornfields everywhere...
No. It counts as a fetus, embryo, etc. There are many gray areas when it comes to abortion laws in our country.

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#4731 - 08/11/04 10:38 AM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Gremelin Offline
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Technically a cell is a living organism; ask any scientist ...


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#4732 - 08/11/04 03:41 PM Re: who will you vote for ?
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Alright, I'm late to this thread, and seeing as how I'm probably one of the 10% of folks in this thread that actually can vote, I'll give my opinion. Kerry is a big douchebag, but not as big of a douchebag as Bush. I'd vote 3rd party, but unfortunately in this election, a 3rd party vote is a vote for Bush.

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com

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