Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8
H
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8
In order to get elected, a potential presidental candidate has to make a vast amount of money on a weekly basis in order to get the amount of political exposure (not Clinton style) required to get elected.

The only way for a candidate, be they Republican (Go Arnie!!!) or Democrat to accrue such vast (and I mean vaaasst) funds is to utilize corporate sponsorship, as a direct result of such a system, Political leaders directly reflect the opinions of their sponsors. These sponsers are invariably Health Insurance Companies, Oil Companies and large scale industries.

Therefore, no matter who is elected, the overall system will never change, people will always be royally porked over things like health insurance and oil will always be the driving force behind political occupations. UK gets socialist health care, they don't have to pay for operations or anything... If you get shot, they look for the exit wound not the certificate of insurance.

The truth is, that prior to 1991 Saddam was considered an ally of the US and UK, infact both sides sold weapons to the Iraqi's and provided military training to assist in the campaign (which yeah they did kind of use chemical weapons... whoops why didn't we go in then???) against Iran (who we like now apparently).

The invasion of Kuwait was premeditated and ran under a flag of so called retrieval of territory by Saddam, he even applied to the UN for authorisation...

Naturally as Kuwait has/had a massive percentage of the worlds oil supplies, the rest of the world could not allow one man to corner such a market share as it would grant him almost limitless political power. How long would America last without oil??? Imagine if your petrol went up 400% in price... (Then I would authorise gamma strikes but that's just me)

This war and the first war were portrayed as a liberation, when they were both merely an exercise in maintaining the geo-political status quo, no matter whether it was a flag of righteousness of a banner of war, the motive remains cold and political.

George Bush when all is said and done is a smiling veneer to the corporations he represents... The guy was alleged to be a regular cocaine user, I mean not that I don't approve of his funding South American economies, but just doesn't seem like the moral paradigms of a truly righteous and honourable man.

There are positives to the war however, Saddam Hussain's removal as leader was welcomed by the people of Iraq, I mean... they had to make him a cake on his birthday (no [censored], everyone did... how [censored] up is that) but that's totally not the point... oh yeah, However, an occupying army will not be welcomed for long, and the people of iraq are already tired of it's presence, American and British troops are being killed by the dozen right now. - People concern themselves with the repercussions to the countries' leaders however, we should be more concerned with the plight of our people out there under threat.

Noone will likely read this post because it is long and boring... but yeah.

okay I need a lie down now.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 207
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 207
you make some good points. but i do disagree on a few things. first: i don't really think we like iran too much. the way i see it, after iraq, it's gonna be syria then iran. no matter how you look at it, these countries are still funding terrorism, so yeah. second: you make it sound like the world was wrong to stop iraq from invading kuwait. remember what happened when the world turned away to hitler invading the czech? third: the majority of the iraqi ppl still want the americans there. around 3/4. while it's not a lot, it's better than what some ppl want you to think. the iraqi ppl know that if the americans leave, another saddam is just gonna stroll in again. and if it's between that and the americans, they choose the americans. and fourth: ppl aren't dying by the dozens. from all the allied countries fighting, there is an average of 2 people per day. that's an average since the beginning of the war. 328 people, by roughly 159 days. do you want me to compare this to other wars? such as ww2, where 500,000 americans (just americans) were killed. it comes to roughly 400 americans per day. 1942-1945, 500,000/3*365. anyway, that's f'now.//


Unbodied unsouled unheard unseen
Let the gift be grown in the time to call our own
Truth is natural like a wind that blows
Follow the direction no matter where it goes
Let the truth blow like a hurricane through me
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8
H
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8
I wasn't suggesting (or i didn't mean it to appear) that we were wrong to invade Iraq (the first time), I was implying that the motives for the 'liberation of Kuwait' were not as clear cut and morally just as the government would have had us believe.

This was apparent when, the end of the iraqi (is that how you spell it??) occupation of Kuwait indicated a restoration of the political status-quo. Bush ("Read my lips" senior) having encouraged the people of Iraq to rise up against Saddam, pulled Allied Forces out allowing him [Saddam] to slaughter all of his perceived opponents. We stood idly by as he gassed thousands (and this time I do mean thousands) of Kurds. Where were we then as a peacekeeping humanitarian force?

I do agree though in so far as in terms of human casualties, this war pales into insignificance with regard to comparative body count. However, as for the number of Americans dying, how many is enough? In my opinion, a proud military with a great sense of tradition and honour is being betrayed by it's government for the sake of oil, not justice.

Do you think Bush loses sleep over those two American sons who are never coming home again to their families?

Essentially my point relates not to the moral standing and outlook of your average American, more the core motivation of your average former coke addict commander in chief. I personally cannot get in support of a man who is already buoyed and influenced by an 'army' of corporations. (was going to write 'cannot get behind a man who...' yeah that didn't work for me)

This rant isn't necessarily whining that Bush is a particularly bad example of a president, it is suggesting that the apparent moral decay found within his administration is inherent in most modern political figures due to the nature of modern politics.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 207
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 207
" (was going to write 'cannot get behind a man who...' yeah that didn't work for me)" - lol

i'd have to say, the majority of ppl over there giving their lives, believe this is a just war. let's assume for a minute here that the ONLY reason for this war is oil, and for profit. in my eyes, the ending of saddam's dictatorship, the freeing of the iraqi ppl, and another step towards ending large (country funded) terrorist groups is more than just. now i know the terrorist part of this is a bit hazy. bringing down saddam could possibly make things worse. but its like getting a hook stuck in your flesh. you have to push it through to get it out. i dunno, that's just what i think. and as far as corruption in politics. yeah...what else is new, lol. but at least if you look at this in the long run. the ends will justify the means. assuming all goes to plan.//


Unbodied unsouled unheard unseen
Let the gift be grown in the time to call our own
Truth is natural like a wind that blows
Follow the direction no matter where it goes
Let the truth blow like a hurricane through me
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
in reply to Gollum's statement about bush.

I totally agree with "Fleshwound".
If Iwere you "Gollum" I would wake up b\4 it's to late! Any president that tells his\her people that they have absolute proof of W.O.M.D, and that they know exactly where they are and then cannot locate even one of them is either been lied to by his\her security people, or he\she is the one who is doing the lying.
Just something to think about.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
In reply to Fleshwound's comments,

I am glad to finally hear from someone who has their feet on the ground and their eyes wide open to the truth!
Thanks for not buying into all the repulican crap.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
A general reply.

I'm not against the liberation of oppressed ppl, but that is not why we went to war with iraq.
I am against a president that continually lies to his own ppl. I believe he went to war with iraq for the following reasons:
1. Saddam tried to kill his father. So revenge is part of this reason.
2. If he killed Saddam it would be a large feather in his hat, and go a long way toward getting him re-elected!
3. It does have alot to do with the control of the oil fields. If it didn't, then why were the oil fields the first things repaired,not the hospitals,not the power
stations, but the oil Fields.
Need I go on to show where his thinking is going.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 207
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 207
i'd just like to say to your first two reasons he went to war: that's assuming bush can say "let's go to war" and we go to war. congress has to let him go to war as well. i dont' think congress is going to go to war b/c saddam tried to kill GW's father.
and for #3. oil fields are a lot easier to secure than hospitals and power stations, which are located in or near cities/towns. you can use perhaps a few squads of men or women to secure an oil field. however, hospitals in towns take a lot longer. you're not gonna start sending in doctors if the enemy is just gonna start shooting them. yes, it is against the geneva convention, but when has that stopped them (or hitler) b4? you have to make sure the city is safe b4 you do stuff like that. not to mention, oil fires can create havoc for the environment, health issues, and be very dangerous if they get out of hand.
also, look at the current state of iraq. generally, iraq as a nation is doing much much better than it ever was b4.
and as far as womd. i've decided that yes it is important to find them for one reason. just so our government can't go to war for any reason. but...i also believe that the womd aren't there anymore, that they've been moved to syria or iran. i do still believe this was a just war. and that a lot of good did come out of it. the iraqi ppl are beginning to set up their own democratic government etc...
obviously it's not all sunshines and rainbows over there, but it is getting much better. and i think it's getting better quicker than it could have.
i think too many ppl expected iraq to be a changed nation overnight.
also, why must ppl believe that our government is corrupt? and evil? does it fill some sort of void? i may not be a conspiracy theorist, but i also wouldn't trust the government about everything. i guess most of it is all just a POV. you're three comments there are not based on fact...but just observations and reasoning. but most of my reply was the same, with a few exceptions. i just reasoned it a different way. i have no reason to think that GW is an evil man, or that he wants our government to control the world. how can i judge his character by actions that unless i wnat to think otherwise, and assume he's a bad person, have some validity.

perhaps i'm just an optomist. but fromw hat i've seen, most of what's happening is good. but how can you make an arguments based on your judgements about what he wants without any fact to back it up? on the other hand, if you do have facts to back it up, i'd be more than happy to hear them...i'm a very open person (purely non-sexual of course...i mean, i've been curiuos but...ahh, wait, getting OT here. =P) anyway, to sum it up...i see or hear good in what he's done, therefore i can say "hey, he's done good from what i've heard" obviously i don't KNOW, but i have some sort of evidence to back me up. lots of other ppl theorize that bad things happen and they say "hey, he did bad things and screwed up...he's a bad person" and they say it whether or not they KNOW or have heard anything. and i've seen that some ppl flat out lie about what they've heard to make him sound bad. i'll stop here otherwise i'd just keep writing about nothing, lol.
anyway, i wanted to just write up a quick reply, but got carried away. lol //


Unbodied unsouled unheard unseen
Let the gift be grown in the time to call our own
Truth is natural like a wind that blows
Follow the direction no matter where it goes
Let the truth blow like a hurricane through me
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,136
P
pergesu Offline OP
UGN Elite Poster
OP Offline
UGN Elite Poster
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,136
The Iraqi people aren't setting up a democratic government. We're setting up a democratic government. The problems in Iraq go back a hundred years, after the fall of the Ottoman empire, when the middle east was simply partitioned by the major European nations. You've got people who've hated each other for centuries, and are unable to get past their differences, living in the same country, under the same government. Democracy and capitalism have worked well in America, but who's to say that's what would work in Iraq? You can't reasonable expect the arabs, persians, and kurds to put together a functioning government, or even work together under a government we establish.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
In reply to Gollum,

Youv'e made me change my thinking alittle on the 3rd reason. I still believe one of the major points for us going to war was the oil.

Thanks for the reply.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
I agree with you on your comments Pergesu.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 26
T
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
T
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 26
[censored] Governor Bush and the rest of the imperialist Junta too.


"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
If what I read about him at the following addresses is true, then you don,t want to know what I think!!!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29990

http://www.infowars.com/print/misc/dead.htm

You guys & gals draw your own conclusions!


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Likes: 1
ok, i realize that he may not be that great of a president. but a rapist? i doubt it. i read those articles you posted. and the woman seemed completely insane. she seemed to have paranoid schizophrenia to be quite honest. but at any rate... i don't believe that for a minute. like i said, he may not be a great leader, but that surely does not make him a rapist.


"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 26
T
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
T
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 26
Whatever, i too don't by into him raping that woman. But he still sucks. He is a rapist of the environment. And of the Iraqi people.


"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Remember I said "If what I read was true". I don't know if it's true. I also said draw your own conclusions, which you did. I have no problem with that. As far as her being crazy goes, how do we know that they didn't drive her insane by constantly harassing her and her family to drop the case.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 26
T
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
T
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 26
That is another possibility too.


"The constitutional republic is a dictatorship of our collective exploiters, the social democratic red republic is a dictatorship of their former allies."
-Karl Marx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Likes: 1
ehh... i'll buy the "bush snorting coke off a stripper's [censored]" story. that one i could see. but i this just isn't his style. may be a shitty president.. but not a rapist. that is just ridiculous.


"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Gees Fleshwound I didn't even know about the coke & the stripper. But I find it strange that you would believe in the one incident, but not the other.
Like I said I don't know if it's even true, but he's already shown the american people that he's power hungry. He has also shown that he has no regard for american soldiers lives, by taunting the enemy saying bring it on. The reason I say this is because rape isn't about sex, it's about power and exerting ones will over another person. If anyone ever fit that profile to a "T" he does. That's just my opinion, I might be wrong.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 536
Likes: 1
hey.. he went to Harvard. of course he probably dabbled in the drug scene. most people have at some point or another. so yeah.. i believe he did coke.

but it's a giant leap from snorting coke a few times to raping a girl.

i agree, he is power hungry. but the power he seeks is more than just power over a woman for a few minutes. that kind of power wouldn't satisfy him at all. he hungers for power just like another man in history i could mention. *cough cough..ermm think WWII, think Germany*
and yeah.. i don't know if it's true or not. no one knows except for him and that girl. but in my opinion from what i've read and from what i know about Bush... he didn't do it.


"when you look around, you can't tell me honestly you're happy with what you see"
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 181
Let's hope your right Fleshwound.


No matter how complex a lock may be. Someone will always find a key.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 209
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 209
Laff.. Bush the Rapist.. I don't like Bush, but he's not that stupid!
The issue I'd like to talk about is the American flags and such that fleshy and perg talked about. You don't have to support Bush or the war to support America. I think America is slowly (getting faster during the shrub's term) going to hell, but it's still better than many other countries. At least we have the right to make fun of our dumbass president. Bush is the type of person who believes something, and refuses to listen to anything else (He won't even read the newspaper). Some people think that this is good, but I think it's extremely stupid. Do we really want a president who doesn't know what's going on in his own country? He also tried to convince the American people that there is a connection between Saddam and 9-11. STUPID PEOPLE! BIN LADEN WAS BEHIND 9-11!! Anyway, that's my spiel.


Those who say do not know.
Those who know do not say.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Member Spotlight
Posts: 30
Joined: June 2002
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics33,840
Posts68,858
Average Daily Posts1
Members2,176
Most Online3,253
Jan 13th, 2020
Latest Postings
Where and how do you torrent?
by danni75 - 03/01/24 05:58 AM
Animation,
by JohanKaariainen - 08/15/19 01:18 AM
Blackbeard.....
by Gremelin - 10/03/18 07:02 PM
my old account still exists!
by Crime - 08/10/18 02:47 PM
Okay WTF?
by HenryMiring - 09/27/17 01:45 AM
The History Thread...
by Gremelin - 08/11/17 12:11 PM
My friend NEEDS your HELP!
by Lena01 - 07/21/17 12:06 AM
I'm having fun with this guy.
by gabithompson730 - 07/20/17 01:50 AM
I want to upgrade my phone
by gabithompson730 - 07/20/17 01:49 AM
Doom 3
by Cyrez - 09/11/14 08:58 PM
Amazon Gift Card Generator/KeyGen?te
by Gecko666 - 08/22/14 09:21 AM
AIM scene 99-03
by lavos - 09/02/13 08:06 AM
Planetside 2
by Crime - 03/04/13 07:10 AM
Beta Testers Wanted
by Crime - 03/04/13 06:55 AM
Hello Everyone
by Gremelin - 02/12/12 06:01 PM
Tracfone ESN Generator
by Zanvin Green - 01/18/12 01:31 PM
Python 3 issue
by Testing - 12/17/11 09:28 PM
tracfone airtime
by Drache86 - 07/30/11 03:37 AM
Backdoors and the Infinite
by ZeroCoolStar - 07/10/11 03:52 AM
HackThisZIne #12 Releaseed!
by Pipat2 - 04/28/11 09:20 PM
gang wars? l33t-wars?
by Gremelin - 04/28/11 05:56 AM
Consolidate Forums
by diggin2deep - 04/21/11 10:02 AM
LAN Hacking Noob
by Gremelin - 03/12/11 12:42 AM
Top Posters
UGN Security 41,392
Gremelin 7,203
§intå× 3,255
SilentRage 1,273
Ice 1,146
pergesu 1,136
Infinite 1,041
jonconley 955
Girlie 908
unreal 860
Top Likes Received
Ghost 2
Crime 1
Ice 1
Dartur 1
Cyrez 1
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5