some excerpts from dereliction of duty:

"The United States and our democratic allies now face a world where terror and the threat of weapons of mass destruction loom large. The carefree 'saxophone, dark sunglasses, and boggie-down anything-goes' attitude of the Clinton administration and the irrersponsible arrogance of the co-presidents' cronies and subordinates led to the decimation of America's security forces and our defense and intelligence capabilities. We are now reaping what those years of irresponsibility sowed."

The book goes on to talk about how Clinton completely ruined the military, while trying to fight two international conflicts. How he cut the sizes and the budget of the military, but yet wanted to send more troops over. How many people even knew we had troops in Somalia until that incident happened? And how about the Rose Law Firm Whitewater deal? He risked the lives of servicemen simply because he would rather watch golf and not be bothered to make a decision. Clinton would take money from people so they could use the White House. He LOST the nuclear codes. This man was irresponsible and NOT a good president. And Bush got stuck with his mess.
The book is written by his military aide. The man likes Clinton as a person...just not as a president. I suggest giving it a read.//

if i wanted to read about politics i'd be a senater or a congresswomen then after that the first female president. i preper to poke fun at the government because it's one of the few freedoms i have left. plus i'm gizmo's wife. i would take clinton over bush any day. hell i'd take gore's 21 year old son who just got arrested for possesion of maijuana over bush. if the fuck head wasnt on vacation every other month maybe he could do a little better job of being a president istead of some ass wipe just trying to please his daddy cause he cant do anything for himself...

Gollum, I couldn't agree more with you! Clinton just about ran this country into the ground. Now there are uninformed people singing his praises. WTF is that? Clinton was by no means a "good" president. Anyone that even tries to compare Clinton and Bush are just ignorant. You can't compare two completely different things.

Seems like too many people on this board hate Bush but don't even bother to read to BOTH sides to each issue. All people want to do is talk shit. I for one don't even like Bush as a president, I like him as a person though. I think he has gone about things the wrong way and needs to spend more time on domestic policies. But do I go around making uninformed and utterly stupid posts about him? No. Sometimes the sheer ignorance of people just makes me sad...

Please explain how you came to this conclusion!?

i read both sides fleshwound but that doesnt mean i have to talk about the good side if i dont want to. personally it makes me sick to say a good thing about bush and i dont sing clinton's praises. i just think clinton did a better job of being a president than bush. honestly i have nothing bad to say about clinton cause i dont remember much of his administration cause i was in middle/ jr high... at that time the most important thing in my life was getting good grades to get my dad and the school off my back not how well the president ran the country but at the same time i felt more safe going out side of the us than i do now. if i were to leave the us i'd pretend i was canadian not american because from what i have seen and read the world hates americans. our country is on the verge of being kicked out of the united nations cause bush keeps telling them to fuck off. and quite frankly if things keep going the way they are i'm gonna ask giz if we can move out of the states cause all hell is about to break loose. there will be another 9-11 no doubt, it's just a matter of were and i dont want to be here when that happens... my senior year revolved around that and so did my graduation...

Let me just rephrase. Bush did nothing to cause 9/11. 9/11 was the cause of 8 years of bad foreign policy by the Clinton administration. Bush was not responsible for 9/11, but he had to clean it up. Also, there was nothing his administration could do to realistically prevent it. Any chance they might have had was completely shot to shit by the Clinton administrations cutbacks in the DoD and CIA.

"The net sum of the Clinton years is global insecurity: conflict between the West and transnational terrorists, conventional and unconventional conflicts on four continets, and the threat of nuclear war on the Indian subcontinent and Korean peninsula, and possibly in the Middle East. The Clinton era is bracketeed by the 1993 and 2001 terrorst attacks on New York's World Trade Center. The Clinton administration's reckless disregard for America's internal security safeguards led to our country's vulnerability to the unthinkable--attacks on our most prominent landmarks and institutions, on our own soil."
The only part of that that I dont agree with, is that because Clinton was first elected president in '92, then I don't hold him responsible for the first attack in '93 on the WTC.
Also, a memo, during the Clinton administration, from the DOE Office of Safeguards and Standard and Security:
"During the past year disturbing trends continued that resulted in additional budget restrictions, further diminshing technical resources, reducing mission training and undermining our ability to protect nuclear weapons, special nuclear materials and other critical assets. This occurring at a time of increased responsibilities resulting from the international transfer of nuclear materials and the dismantling of U.S. nuclear weapons....It is becoming increasingly difficult to protect our nation's nuclear stockpile."
I'll stop with the quotes in an attempt to make this shorter (hah, lol), but the general idea of what I was gonna get to next, is that Clinton cut back DoD, military and CIA budget and spening (as I said before) all while try to form some sort of order in countries such as Somalia, Haiti, Rwanda, Cambodia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Colombia, and yes Iraq. The problem with these peacekeeping forces though, is that they had no real goal. As one reporter for the Washington Post noted: "While proud to help save the starving and shelter the homeless around the world, Defense Department officials cringe at the notion of becmoning a kind of super, musclebound Red Cross or Salvation Army....Such humanitarian missions are fine now and then, Pentagon officials say. But these operations sap the time and attention of senior officials, cut into combat training excercises, tie up equipment and personnel, and take increasingly scarce defense dollars away from other operations focused on the Pentagon's primary mission of making sure U.S. armed forces remain strong enough to win two regional wars nearly simultaneously."
Like I said before. Clinton had less troops (because of cutbacks) in foreign nations....just sitting there. Trying to complete an unknown objective that could never be reached. All this did was drain the countries budget. Did anyone care where the money was going? No. They only cared that he was cutting back spending. Woohoo...thats great when our men are dying for no cause. For a reason not many of them believe in. And for a leader who despises the military. Ignorance is bliss. Most of us were happy during the Clinton administration because we didn't know any better. We felt happy, because things seemed to be going well, without thinking about the consequences of what he was doing. Instead, we just blame whoevers in office because it makes more sense and is easier that way. Because you have a face to hate. And not some ex-president has-been who has no direct affect on us anymore. Anyway, that was longer than I intended. So I'll stop here.//

I think the 9/11 investigation committee thought differently. That's why they were trying to view the daily presidential briefs, because some of the committee think that he had been warned about 9/11, and failed to act on those warnings. Now if this wasn't true why did bush go out of his way to bar the committee from gaining access to the daily briefs. Could he have yet another secret to hide? He may not have caused it, But if he did have enough time to react to the warnings, and did nothing then he is very guilty.

it's very easy to dish out the could haves and should haves after the fact. it's very easy to say afterwords "he had evidence, he should have known." but it's different when you're getting very many threats on a daily basis. and you have to decide which seem to be the most likely to occur. what you're saying implies that Bush was willing to risk the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent lives. for what? just because he didn't feel like doing anything? or are you gonna say so he could go to war? kill thousands of ppl, just because so many people believe he has this hunger for death, destruction, power and money. people call the man an idiot and a mastermind at the same time.
ok, well what if he knew about this, and decided to act upon it. this means clearing out every major building, and enforcing security on all major airlines so much it'd practically bring them to a standstill. and then what? when nothing happens...guess who gets blamed anyway? when people aren't allowed to conduct business, and we have a huge loss in the stock market, guess who gets the bill? now, if he knew this was gonna happen, then hell yeah, no monetary value is worth a single human life. but i find it absurd to say "He definately knew this would've happened." and can you imagine if they reacted like this for EVERY threat they receive? it's unrealistic. if they do, they need more man power. and more funding to the DoD and the CIA. and hey...that's the exact thing that the clinton adminstration cut back on. and y'know what, speaking of which. guess what helps out in preventing any type of attack on the US. that's right, funding for intelligence and defense agencies.
now, i will admit that a lot of this post isn't based on actual facts, but just logical reasoning. still i haven't said you were wrong. i never said he didn't ahve evidence. all i'm saying is that the evidence he did have, is PROBABLY several pages (at most) among thousands and thousands of others. and that's what people would see, and that's when people would say "then why didn't he do anything?" without realizing that unless he had actual evidence of it happening, hard factual evidence, it would've been too large a plan to have to counter with limited man power and POSSIBLY time. i say probably and possibly just b/c i don't know any of that. on the topic of whether it coudl've been prevented, i don't KNOW much. however, i can logically reason that it happening, imho could not have been prevented. and i defy ANYONE to say that this man LET this happen. unless that is you can give me hard evidence.//

ok, can i not vent when i was having a bad day? i know bush did not cause 9-11. i never said he did but he did not help matters and he's still not helping matters. and as for all the hard evidence that's in safe keeping just like all of bush's misdemenors that he doesn't want anyone to see cause he really likes the idea of all the christian church's seeing him as a good old christian boy who's following the bible for all the christians and only the good christians...

sorry, i didn't mean to come off as so...belligerent? i never said you couldn't vent. and as Voltaire had said "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." but like fleshwound said, it's always best to be able to look at both sides. all i was doing was exercising my freedom of speech to give you that honor =P
//

i know that. it just pisses me off when people say i havent looked onto the other side when in fact i look at both sides before i make a choose. shit i had to do that when gizzy proposed to me (if this smart or really stupid, and for the most part it's been fucking awsome being married to his stuborn ass). i did give bush a chance when he was first elected and at first i did like him but them as time passed certain things just started to piss me off about him but i dont want to go there right now... maybe when my wrist heals and i can type with 2 hands again... but i do also thank every person who has and still are defending my rights epesically freedom of speech considering in some countries you can go to jail for saying the president is an idiot...

First what happened to your wrist?
Second, freedom is something that many americans hold most dear. We must strive to be ever vigilant that we never lose it. Espeacially from within our own country.
Someone once said:
"I would rather die on my feet fighting for freedom, than live a slow death on my knees as a slave"!
I don't know who said this but it's always stuck with me.

i think that will be one of the few political beliefs we can all agree on. that no matter what...freedom is what's most important....well that and love. and of course power and money.....hehe, well ok, i guess you can scratch those last two =P but yes...freedom. and soon, hopefully after a succesful pulmonary respirtory exam i can be one of the few and proud to fight for this freedom that we all hold so dear. (i had/have asthma. ppl with asthma can't join the armed forces...therefore i have to take a test to prove to them i don't have it anymore). and i guess that's that with that.//

i fractured my wrist real bad playing soccar when i was 15 and one of the bones moved to another spot in my wrist so where to bone was a cyst forms and i thought i poped it cause my wrist sweeled up and hurt like a muther fucker when i snapped it... the fucking thing didnt pop though. grrrr and i love that quote and most americans live by that quote especially my marine friend josh. he's mad cause he didnt get saddam but he still gets to go to iraq in january... stuborn mule...

well, i don't know that this world is any less safe with the bush administration than with clinton. i mean, clinton was giving away our military secrets to the chinese. that doesn't make me feel very safe at all. the chinese have hated america since the beginning. our countries just believe in two completely different things. and the fact that the chinese now have similar capabilites as far as war goes is a great concern to me. for that i call clinton a treasonous bastard. he is a traitor to us all. while i don't agree with most of what Bush has done, I wouldn't call him a traitor by any means.

I do!!

lol, i won't go into another rant. but i still dont' see how anyone, given the information that i have supplied, could still think that clinton was a great president. or even good for that matter. and he was not by far a safer president than bush. and, lol, killswitch, i'm hoping that your reply was at most half serious. as you just made a claim to something with which you backed up with no evidence. although, i don't know where you got your name from, but i'd just like to say, that i think the x-files episode called killswitch, was one of my favorites. what with the lone gunmen and all. //

how can anything think bush is a good person let alone a good president then? he's put our entire country in danger in order to make himself look good for his daddy... it's all an opion... our country is known for giving away information and putting bad people in charge... who put saddam in charge? america. who gave bin ladladen his aimo and training? america. i love this country and i'm very thankful for the rights that i have considering as a women in most other countries womens rights are very limited. but this country has had bad president after another cause no one with a decent concience will run and if they have they haven't had the backing in order to win. sadly i think clinton is the one of the better of the worst... but that's only what i think....

bush put our country in danger? and clinton didn't? true, our country does share information with other countries, but to sell our military secrets to the chinese is quite a different thing. that is VERY dangerous considering that China surprisingly is quite nuclear capable. China and Russia are right next to each other too, and Russia is the only country in the world that could ever take on the US in the nuclear area and actually has a chance of winning. We used to be terrified of Russia. Now that China has our secrets, they pose just as much of a threat as Russia used to. not cool by any means.

true, bush did some very stupid things with the war in iraq, but i don't believe he ever had the intentions of putting US soil in danger. believe it or not the man does have a conscience. he also is a huge nationalist. he loves this country very much, he just makes some bad choices in running it. that doesn't detract from the fact that he does love the US and wouldn't willingly or knowingly put it in danger. Clinton on the other hand very easily handed over secrets to the Chinese. for re-election money. putting the US in a lot of danger of a future attack by the Chinese. and it was all for money to be re-elected. how assinine is that?

so while you may hate bush, hate clinton just as much if not more for selling out all of us american people.

Dude! That's an awsome quote, and so true!! " title="" src="graemlins/Cool.gif" />

Bullseye!!!!

All of you people who are Bush haters are a bunch of ignorant hippies. Why weren't all you dumbshits bitching at Clinton when he bombed Iraq and when he bombed Kosovo. You all just hate Bush because you and all your friends think its cool to hate the government. "Fight the system man" you are all a bunch of hippie ass holes that can't get laid.


(p.s. i am a gay and i like it up the ass)

i can't get laid huh? i guess what my husband, Gizmo, and i were doing upstairs in our bed wasnt sex though i dont know what else it could be... i dont hate bush because it's cool. i hate bush because he's a dumb fuck, i also hate clinton but i prefer him over bush. next time u choose to speak out i suggest u choose ur words more wisely when the rest of us are just using our first amendment rights.

What who, damn it thats why I hate to government because I can't get laid!! NO!!! Wait there is a lot of females joining the board....

Anyway, we didn't bitch about Clinton because he had a brain and was a good president. He basically had all the needed qualities in a leader that bush lacks.

thank you shinobi!!! *kisses him on the cheek*