so i want to learn to program what langauge first? i know some html and some g code and maybe some BASIC but whats an easy to learn useful programing language?

Learn some C++ at least then you'd be able to program for both *nix and Windows. Or if you feel you're too lame to do that, learn some VB... But eventually you'll get into C++, heh..

so any web resources on C++? or is it best to buy a book or take a class? i got a friend whos father has been programming for a looong time(writes software for banks) if i get really stuck im sure i could get some pointers from him .

< heads off to google to do a search >

well a good start is online tutorials and free shells. You can start by just testing out c in basic linux scripts and ****... How i got started is that i helped a few friends program some linux backdoors and false daemons for warboxes and some exploits and ****...

((as many of you know I was one of the first to type up a laymens report on PDG_Cart, Cisco Routers, etc))

If you need any help feel free to ask and i'll help you out. As for shells, look for something that has Pico access, i can't ****ing stand VI..

oh yeh, and for note, classes are well worth it, but you have to umm "aquire" some software :x

you dont like VI huh? eheh i can find software this is not a problem..

The best way to answer your question on what language to start with first is with a bit of information. With that information, I'll tell you what to start with and why.

1) Are you a smart study (able to self-teach, good ability to grasp concepts)
2) Why and for what do you want to program
3) How important is easy and fast programming verses harder and slower programming.
4) Do you want to program for windows, linux, or cross-platform (like Java and Perl)?

I think with that I can answer your question intelligently rather than enforcing my personality and circumstance specific opinions on you.

silent rage-

1. yes very much so.
2. ive always been intriqued by programing and would like to fully understand it.
3.doesnt matter to me right now i have alot of time on my hands.
4.i mainly use windows so would prolly be a windows thing.


i looked at some c++ tutorial earlier today and with my past CNC programing experience it just clicked seems natural. now i didnt say i can go write a program but it makes good sense to me.

Get Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0

Comparison between VB and VC++

1) Both are very popular and you'll have no problem with finding learning materials and example code.
2) VC++ is a bit harder to learn
3) VB programming is a bit faster
4) VC++ is more powerful and flexible and can have less overhead than VB

whats the diff between C++ and VC++ ? i looked for Microsoft VC++ and it was all menu driven it looked like. i was under the impression this would be more like just plain text? or is that where the visual? part comes in? anyway used to writing NC programs from scratch but those were just X and Y coordinates and g code. or canned cylces whatever you want to call it.

huh, well, I chose VC++ cause you said "easy to learn" in your first post. But hey, if you don't like that gorge of a GUI VC++ has, then consider GIMP perhaps. I think that's the gcc equivilent for windows. I don't know if it has an IDE or not. LCC is good too (that's what I use), but it is only for C - not C++. You can also go to the Borland website and get there free Borland Command-Line Compiler, it is for C and C++ - absolutely no GUI, just compiler/linker type stuff.

If I were you, I'd ask myself a question:

Do I want rapidly deployable applications with fewer options, or do I want in-depth applications with a multitude of options that I will spend more time on?

If you want rapid deployment, learn PHP and Perl. Both free, both SIMPLE to learn. Took me 30 minutes to get the basics of Perl down.

If you want in depth, take the route these guys suggest: C++. Go to your library, find the oldest, most beat up C or C++ book. Beat it up some more; make sure it looks old. Take it to the front desk and say that you think it's too old to be of any use anymore, and ask if you can have it or any other old 'puter books. This is what I do - I have 3 bookcases of books I didn't pay for at home.

Have fun!

Oh yeah - remember this word, "man", before you post anything to a message board it'll save you time.

hmmm i suggest Dev-C++ its for windows its deved by a load of linux geeks and u can even have it look like its on linux - hehe Gnome look! well no thats not the fun part the good part its free and u can dl it from download.com allthough a sad part is that it does not include all header files with it!

but thise are easely aquired over the net!

C and C++ are gonna be your best bet for learning to do systems and socket programming. Java is also good, because it's essentially as powerful as C++, and is extremely portable. It will run on almost any OS without any change in code. Some good Java tutorials can be found at http://rrfn.promodtecnologies.com/otherfiles.htm

Hey scallion, where might i be able to get perl or PHP. What is PHP, i've never heard of it, lol... im new here i guess.

i am not sure but perl is for programming in linux commands and shell.
http://www.activestate.com/ http://perl.com http://hackingtruths.box.sk/perl.htm http://perl.com/pub/q/documentation http://www.hotscripts.com/Perl/



here is how php.net describes php as:

"What is PHP?
PHP is a widely-used general-purpose scripting language that is especially suited for Web development and can be embedded into HTML. If you are new to PHP and want to get some idea of how it works, try the introductory tutorial. After that, check out the online manual, and the example archive sites and some of the other resources available in the links section."
http://www.php.net http://www.php.net/tut.php http://www.php.net/docs.php http://phpworld.com/ http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/

i am kinda new to programming too. the only thing i know is html, css, java script, and basic.

Java Script and Basic if known in depth are not bad places to start at all. First off, Basic is in fact a full language. Do you know VB or Qbasic? Qbasic can be found on your windows install disks. just browse them. You can also find a compiler on line for qbasic.

As for java script. It is a decent place to start. It builds good habits, and can give you a general idea on how programing usallyt works. Once you learn one language, the rest are just different commands and different ways of doing the same.

For example, if then statments
do while loops
and on and one.

i know some basic. i have programmed using g-code which is basically cnc machine stuff. it is mainly canned cylces and geometry but really basic stuff.

i had a vic 20 back in the day and played some with basic then but it didnt really set in i read the manuals and typed in some programs but didnt go too far with it.

thats about all my exposure has been to this stuff.

I'd have to say that a class is the best way to learn c++, I tried learning on my own.(hehe failed miserably) I picked up a little perl, html, basic on my own. But c++ and java are a little complicated cause they're object oriented. If you can catch on to that though you're all set. To answer your question, I'd start with C basics, then jump into C++.

C++ is really nothing special. it's not like C is a 85 chevy nova and C++ is brand-new ferrari. The thing about C++ and all OO-languages is that they were created to serve the requirements of huge applications and have 100s of thousands of lines of code. That's the main difference between c and C++. jus look at bugtraq an securityfocus and tell me how many exploits you see written in c++? not very many if any at all. unless you are planning on writing the next Quake engine or making the next microsoft office you don't really need C++ or any other OO-language. stick with C.

heh, even in C you can write huge programs if you want. It'll just take a highly developed programming method which works quickly for you. Shoot, I've seen huge (even graphical) programs written in nothing but ASM even.

yeah, I mean if operating systems can be written in C then why bother with C++, how much more "POWER" can you get out of it?

The vast majority of games, and nearly all high-performance 3D games are programmed in C with bits of assembly thrown in

yah, in my personal unproffessional opinion, programming in C/ASM is ideal. C is high level enough to make things fast and convenient enough to make the big programs. Then you use ASM to optimize essential parts. IMHO pure ASM programming is not necessary since C compilers do a dámn fine job if you use a good one.

Linux Backdoors? Trojans for Linux you mean?

Daemons? like MailerDaemon?

Sowwi me noob