UGN Security

Start of the end?

Posted By: §intå×

Start of the end? - 12/08/05 12:39 PM

Verizon has just announced it will freeze the pension plans of its 50,000 management employees. Not because it is going backrupt or that it needs to, it wants to because it's competitors Google, Comcast, AOL, all do not offer pennsions and therefore are leaner for competition. This sets the stage for 2008 when CWA(communication workers of america) and IBEW(International brotherhood of electrical workers) negotiate a new union contract.

This is striking as Verizon made billions in profit this year. As more companies eject thier pennsion plans and break promises to thier employees what will future retires do? Social Security as we all know is going to fail. With Bush's administrations plans yet to come maybe sooner than later.

Add to that rising healthcare cost, a new medicare plan to rules out most of america. Where will the relif comeform when we need it? Last year 9% of tech jobs went over seas. That dosen't count in the number filled in the stated by H1b visa's.

Ford motor company had anounced it would lay off 4,000 employees. That has since changed to 4,000 salery employess and 30,000 hourly. Closing 10 plants in the US none over seas.

take a look at this ess/

or this

In the US([censored] you canadians lol) we have a BIG problem brewing. Heating costs this winter are expected to rise on average 25.7% fules prices are expected to rise. Quite a few mommies and daddies will get pink slips, and medicare will not cover quite a few of them. Social security is at least for my generation expected to fail due to fat cat politicians "borrowing against it". Guess what, they do not plan to pay that money back.

Meanwhile medical companies will get top dollar from medicare plan just re-writen. The poorest and richest people will qualify, middle class... Well you have a plan or make too much yes $30,000 is too much.

My observation the last lets say 6 years is the rich and poor divied is really growing. Did you know we have now spent more money in Iraq than we did during all of Veitnam? That todays children will sholder this cost along with failed social security, failed health care, faile or broken pennsion plans.

What this country needs is a revolution. Not a violent one mind you. But one to re-enforce the middle class is the back bone of this nation and demand our respect. The rich many view us as poor ignorant people to deal with for what they need. They need to be reminded how much they need us.

Board of directors
Career poloticians
Senior management in top 1000 companies
Medical suppliers
Mass News

All need to be somehow reminded that without the middle class this country has nothing. There is no product, there is no buyer, there is no money from taxes. It is us who sholder the majority of the load in this country. All we want is to be able to live life without worrying how we will feed our kids, and get them medical attention. We also are sick of worrying about retirment.

What do you think would happen if after a layoff anouncement if half the [censored] country showed up at thier door to protest and announce a boycot of that product? What would happen id a pension freeze meant your sales fell 80%.

We [censored] and complain about [censored] up companies but we do have power. Unions were formed because of unfair labor pratices. I think thier time has come and passed. But what if something new could be made? maybe a hybrid union/
Posted By: Curse

Re: Start of the end? - 12/14/05 06:56 AM

I agree, it is most definately time for some reformation in this nation. It seems we have lost site of what this country was founded on and have turned into a nation that caters to CEO's who want to screw over their employees and consumers...
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Start of the end? - 12/14/05 01:55 PM

I do not blame the CEO's actually. When running a company it takes a certain mindset. You should allways be thinking of how to trim costs and mazimise profits. The problem comes when I company gets to be in the top 10%. At that time they are huge and that midset becomes harmful in numerous ways.

#1 to thier employees. A company that big can spend the money to automate your job, thus saving money in the future.

#2 The consumer, if they sell 40 billion units of product X and 10,000 are defective, this is a drop in the bucket, Yet to mom and pop 10,000 is a possible company killer.

#3 Buracracy plots and conspiracy, Boards people, it is all about the boards that run your company. Listen, if you get laid off, do not go in and shoot the place you work up. They are just as broke as you, yes your supervisor makes a whoping 15% more than you. So he can afford cheese on his whopper. SO WHAT. The board decided to [censored] can you. Got to corparate hedquarters and shoot that place up. Boards plot and schem, they hold the power and the money. Quite often the board members are from rival compaines. They make deals and lock prices, kill competition(mom and pop). They make what you do in a year for sitting in a single board meeting.

CEO's and corperate types will go as far as we let them. They pay attention to profit margins and stock prices. Soooo send them a message through those things. It would have to be in mass numbers. Quit shoping wal-mart, sell off all stock, refuse to use intel chip as they outsource. Start buying from companies they take care of thier employees and boycott those that do not.

The end result? To pay healthcare, and decent wages helps profit margins. The middle class is 80% od this nations buying power... Think we could send a message is 20% of us got on board?
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Start of the end? - 12/14/05 06:04 PM

Given the Fed's chronic preoccupation with the fear that wages might be about to go up-and its publicly stated commitment to make sure that won't happen-the only condition that can't be explained away is why American workers continue to vote for the conservative politicians who deliberately created their wage stagnation.
America's financial elite set common goals, coordinate activities, and morally rationalize their callous behaviors by constantly referring to their new testament and chanting its gospel:
* High incomes and tax cuts for the wealthy are good because they create jobs. Wage increases for workers are always bad because they cause inflation.
* Corporate profits are good. Legislative protections of working conditions are expensive, benefit primarily workers, and are therefore bad.
* Economic growth is good, as long as it increases corporate profits. Economic growth is excessive-and bad, if wages start to go up.
* The Chamber of Commerce and the National Association of Manufacturers are good for American workers. Labor unions are bad for them.
The Brief
Financial conservatives have been waging class warfare against working Americans for more than 20 years. Actually, they've been doing it for the entire century but they've been especially successful in the past 20 years, so that's a convenient and relevant period for discussion. This is how they've been doing it, and why they've been so successful:
1. Traditionally, conservative economists and politicians kept wages down by manipulating the prime interest rate. Whenever the economy grew to the point where unemployment went down and workers had the power to negotiate for more money, the Federal Reserve simply raised the interest rate.
This made it more expensive for businesses to borrow, the economy would cool down, unemployment would go up, and wages would stagnate or go down-just as the economists and politicians intended.
2. Conservative economists and politicians explained that the reason for their actions is that rising wages cause inflation, which hurts everyone. Therefore, they should keep workers' wages from going up. In fact, whenever they refer to inflation, they make it a point to call it "wage inflation."
They totally ignored, however, the inflationary effects of the rising incomes of business owners, corporate executives, investors, etc. They also chose to ignore the fact that businesses could share more of their outlandish profits with workers without increasing prices. Indeed, for the past 20 years, it hasn't been wage inflation; it's been profit inflation.
3. Now there is a great debate going on. Some still feel that the economic growth of the past 20 years should be slowed by raising the prime interest rate. After all, unemployment is at record low levels. Others feel it's no longer necessary to raise the prime, because wages can be kept down in other ways that are less detrimental to profits such as exporting jobs overseas, destroying unions, using temporary or contract workers, and so on.
What's striking about this public debate is that all parties are arguing about the best way to ensure that investors, business owners, and executives get wealthier. Virtually no one is concerned about the welfare of the working-class Americans who are most directly and personally harmed by either of these strategies. Under either approach, workers make all the sacrifices, and investors and the rich reap most of the benefits.
4. Among many of the empty promises made to workers is that their wages will go up if the economy grows. This is probably the most pernicious lie foisted onto the American voter when it comes time to cut taxes on the wealthy. Their propaganda spin goes like this: Cutting taxes will cause the economy to grow; added growth will lower unemployment; lower unemployment makes workers scarcer; and when workers are scarce, wages will go up.
Problem is, as the past 20 years have demonstrated, economic growth has little to do with higher wages. It's all about power and who has it. Right now, investors and the wealthy have all the power and workers have none.
5. The biggest single reason economic growth hasn't increased wages is that conservatives have deliberately pitted American workers against brutalized workers in Third World countries, to drive down all wages in the U.S. Whenever unemployment goes down and workers start demanding more money, all a corporation has to do is threaten to close down operations and move overseas.
That usually stops any embarrassing discussion about higher wages-at a time of record corporate profits. And obviously, if employees refuse to be intimidated, companies actually carry out their threats to leave the country. Then, the workers who lose their jobs enter the marketplace and exert downward pressures on the wages of other workers, even in the jobs that can't be exported to other countries.
6. The "worker" classification is getting bigger. Jobs of engineers, Ph.D. scientists, computer specialists, etc. are now being sent overseas to people who make one-third as much. Today, it's more accurate to refer to investors and workers, instead of management and workers, professionals and workers, or even "skilled workers" and workers. Those who control the money can, and do, control everyone else-as low-level managers, doctors, engineers, architects, and other professionals are belatedly finding out. As political power shifts to investors, so does economic power.
And as their power increases, the economic system becomes increasingly biased in favor of those with money and against those who develop and produce the actual wealth of our country: land, buildings, products, and services.
7. Consenatives proclaim in their talk shows and editorials that unions are bad for workers. On the other hand, in their news articles they cite the declining power of unions as a major reason for wage stagnation and poor working conditions. In fact, the declining power of unions is one of their most frequently used arguments for not having to raise the prime interest rate.
It's especially interesting to note that skilled professionals, such as doctors, dentists, and college professors, are beginning to discover the benefits, and the necessity, of collective bargaining. In the economy of today, power is everything. Justice and fairness, and even the long-term economic health of our society, count for absolutely nothing.
8. After decades of economic growth, increasing worker productivity, technological development, and higher incomes for the wealthy, wages and working conditions have degenerated for the bottom half of Americans. Instead of getting better with all these advancements, as promised, the opposite has happened.
In fact, the United States has joined the Third World in victimizing workers. Many workplaces have become more dangerous, more likely to cause chronic disabilities and more dulling to the senses. For many workers, our country has regressed to the pre-1930 era.
9. There is no mystery about why corporations and businesses have all the power today. The coalition from workers' hell Republicans and conservative Democrats, made it happen. They destroyed much of the power of workers to organize by passing the Taft-Hartley Act in 1947. More recently-with the passage of NAFTA and GATT, and a host of anti-worker actions-they gave workers the coup de grace by making them compete with brutalized Third World workers.
As Newt Gingrich once claimed in The Wall Street Journal, the price of labor is now set in South China. It matters not to conservatives that American workers live in this country, with our standard of living, and our cost of living.
10. If there is any confusion left about our present economy, it's why American working-class citizens have been so thoroughly conned into voting for the conservative politicians who made it all happen. The most plausible explanation is that there has been a proliferation of "think tanks" that are funded by wealthy right-wing zealots. With almost unlimited money, they are able to staff their organizations with people who are willing to intentionally distort the implications of financial data and economic events. Their most effective lies are those that use accurate data to lead to inappropriate and false conclusions.
11. The 1993 Deficit Reduction legislation is a classic example of the kinds of factual distortions that enable conservatives to con voters into making false conclusions that are injurious to their own interests. Even The Wall Street Journal described how Republicans misled the public about whom the 1993 legislation would affect and how. Contrary to common belief, only the top 1.2% of Americans got any significant tax increases. And, as most people now know-and the Journal pointed out-raising taxes on the wealthy in 1993 is a major reason for the lower deficits of the late 1990s.
12. There isn't the remotest similarity between those who the Republicans claim will benefit from their tax cuts and those who actually benefit. In fact, they deliberately deceive the public about the regressive nature of their specific tax changes on working-class Americans. They also ignore the loss of necessary government services-which benefit mostly middle- and low-income workers- when tax cuts for the wealthy reduce government revenues.
13. The privatization of Social Security is another conservative strategy that will benefit the wealthy at the expense of working Americans. Social Security was intended to ensure a safe retirement, financed by current workers making decent incomes. Despite articles describing stock fraud, "boiler rooms," insider trading-and how hard it is for anyone with less than $1,000,000 to get good investment advice-Republicans want workers to compete with the Wall Street sharks when they invest their retirement funds.
The sure winners in privatizing Social Security will be stock brokers, experienced investors, and the entire banking and investment industry. For workers who are unsophisticated in the economics of Wall Street, the future does not look good. The best we can hope for is that when they answer a cold call-during dinner, from a broker- the broker will be a conscientious representative with a reputable firm who is not under pressure from his boss to generate high commissions.
14. Another major propaganda effort of conservatives is aimed at destroying Americans' belief in their own government. Central to this strategy is their incessant criticism of governmental officials, while claiming that private businesspersons would serve the public's interests much better. A review of the behaviors of American executives and businesspersons suggests that the opposite is true.
When you read about the antics of these people-in their own conservative publications-you have to ask the question: Can these corporate bureaucrats actually manage our economy and society better than "government bureaucrats"? The number of articles describing corporate greed, mismanagement, incompetence, and outright fraud-of huge proportions-is massive.
15. Freedom is central to the success of our country. Problem is, which are the freedoms that really count? And who best protects the freedoms that really count? Corporations? Or democratically elected representatives? The number of examples of bad corporate behaviors in the absence of sensible regulations is overwhelming. Well-financed conservatives use their money to buy the necessary politicians, judges and legislators to ensure that corporations and businesses have the freedom to take ruthless advantage of workers and the general public.
16. Glorifying greed and materialism-and minimizing fairness and justice-has become a staple in the conservative arsenal for taking control of America's political base. Think about it. Many voters seem more concerned about the private sex life of politicians than about whether or not they lie to the public about economic and social issues.
For example, Bill Bennett's Book of Virtues is a great book, but he left out fairness and justice. He chose virtues that emphasize hard work and charity, but not fair treatment of workers. It's typical of the subtle conservative propaganda effort to equate wealth with virtue, and to relegate the concepts of fairness and justice into the dustbin of values.
17. There is a growing new American royal class. Can working Americans afford to support all these people who are getting locked into an extravagant life-style? A style that can be maintained only if workers' wages remain low and taxes remain regressive. By cashing in the wealth that workers created from the 1940s to the 1980s, conservatives produced 20 years of prosperity for those who knew how to take unprincipled advantage of our new economic system. But we can't afford to continue this fire sale of wealth much longer before the bills come due.
18. Time is getting short. The income and wealth disparity between the top 20% of Americans and everyone else is growing into a vast chasm. Having been conned by conservatives that "wealth is not a zero-sum game," voters assume that this growing problem will eventually be to their own benefit, since "wealth trickles down."
Big mistake. Wealth is a zero-sum game, at both the front end-in the allocation of income, and the back end-the spending of income. In effect, the more wealth other people have, the less you have. This becomes important in an economic downturn, especially for those who have not built up substantial savings.
And there are danger signs on the horizon: wages are starting to creep up, which, in this "new economy" that conservatives have created, threatens corporate profits, the stock market, and the economic and social health of our country.
19. Workers of America, Unite!-Because Financial Conservatives Already Have, and They Own Congress and the Presidency. Never vote for a Republican. In the primaries, pick a liberal Democrat over a conservative Democrat. Always vote for a progressive populist-preferably one who is not having an affair with his secretary (but if that's your only choice, he's better than a Republican or conservative Democrat).
Progressive populists actually believe that we need government to protect the freedoms that count. An effective government-with honest, not-paid-for politicians-is our only defense against corporate executives who have no moral standards for the treatment of workers or the general public.
Posted By: Crime

Re: Start of the end? - 12/21/05 11:58 PM

its about dam time....
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Start of the end? - 12/22/05 01:50 PM

Any ideas to gather masses under one cause?
Posted By: Crime

Re: Start of the end? - 12/22/05 08:54 PM

Originally posted by int:
Any ideas to gather masses under one cause?
free stuff, everyone loves free stuff....
Posted By: Spyrios

Re: Start of the end? - 12/24/05 09:09 PM

I don't think the people will unite until enough of them looses their jobs, or turn off their TVs and read something. The problem is, as a country, we care more about who the politicians say the pray to than what they actually believe in. Clinton [censored], we knew he [censored] and we didn't care because that just meant he was one of us. The current political environment of our country is frightening, and the sad part is that we brought ourselves here. We voted these [censored] holes in because they say they love god, or we didn't vote because we say it doesn't make a difference. People in this country have been taught all their lives, you can't fight city hall, they have been told by big business that their money isn't important, this is seen every time you go to a McDonalds or Wal-Mart and the cashier doesn't make eye contact, doesn't say may I help you, doesn't say thank you for your purchase, and we accept it as the norm, I for one say [censored] those people, I don't shop wal-mart, I don't eat McDonalds. So to put it shortly, I feel that this nation of apathetic Sheople should read 1984 and Farenheigt 451 and open their eyes to take a look. If you have noticed the movie Farenheight 451 has never been remade, do you think this administration would ever let that happen? Of course not, it would be a blockbuster hit in this country and maybe then people would wake up. But I fear that it will never happen. If you can find a way to make it happen I will be there, but in the mean time, I will keep doing what I am doing, and all we can hope is that there are other people out there doing the same thing.
Posted By: Spyrios

Re: Start of the end? - 12/24/05 09:15 PM

BTW what is your source learner?
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Start of the end? - 12/25/05 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Spyrios:
I don't think the people will unite until enough of them looses their jobs, or turn off their TVs and read something.
I dissagree. Here is why, all throughout history the masses have fought oppression as it built on them. An example is the forming of the unions in this country. Men were shot at by company executives on the first picket lines. Companies actualy felt they owned these men in small towns. Byt they stood thier ground and eventualy the workers movement took hold. We got a 40 hrs work week, over time became a federal law, child labor laws took hold...

It is jus a matter of insperation, it is a matter of communicating to these people. We are more educated today than we ever have been as a people. The first unions were 99% highschool drop outs. They knew thier manual labor jobs and thats it. As a people we can grasp polotics more now. We usally choose to ignor it, but we can grasp it. If you hit the right cords and break through the apathy I think you CAN make a difference in numbers.

That brings me back... How do you do that? For one I need a catlyst... The equal right movement had that lady on the bus who refused to stand or move to the back. The American revolution had the Boston tea party. This revolution needs a catalyst as well. I used revolution as a purely political term, not violent or militant. The american people need to make our voice heard and not be so apathetic as to watch our way of life move across the atlantic.


People in this country have been taught all their lives, you can't fight city hall, they have been told by big business that their money isn't important,
We also have examples of people taking on the giant and winning. I listed a few above... But
Slavery ending
Labor laws/Unions
Hippies through political presure end veitnam(think Nixon a hardline republican would have done it on his own?)
Equal Rights movement

Think about each of these and what these groups were up against. When a man could be hung with no question in Alabama in the 1950's do you thin anybody ever saw change as possible? A select few did and rallied masses around thier cause.


If you can find a way to make it happen I will be there, but in the mean time, I will keep doing what I am doing, and all we can hope is that there are other people out there doing the same thing.
You can help now... Start talking to people, get people to see what is happening and looking for ways to fight it. It starts slow, but get them to talk to people... Then the people they talk to, get them to talk to people. I know 10 here at work that want to act, but everyone is fearful on how it will affect our nice cushy lives. No one wants to be they only guy who shows up to the protest... So you build numbers slowly and quitely... Then organise, then you launch you attack.

I am very glad you ban many places... I think I will compose a list of major out source companies and thier numbers. Firms that support outsourcing...

This might help, data allways seems to make things clearer for me.
Posted By: Gremelin

Re: Start of the end? - 12/26/05 09:28 AM

I think that outsourcing jobs overseas will eventually bite us in the [censored], it's starting to already, our unemployment rate is up, and prices on resources is up, and homeless is up...

We're starting to get some back, but not because they realized the error in their ways, the dotheads are asking for more money, in some case more than what they would be paying US workers...
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