UGN Security

Our fast paced society and its impact on us

Posted By: §intå×

Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 08:51 AM

Ever thought about it? How many people do you know that are bi polar? How many do you know that are on anti depressants? What if we weren't ever meant to live this way? At rhe risk of ringing the paranoina bell... How much of society works all their lives to make a handful rich. How many of us are truly free. Sure we can go to the movie and take in culture that makes us want buy stuff. Or act a certain way.

I would like to know the stats of mental illness since the 1950's till now. Ever think about the amount of law enforcement on payroll these days verses the amount back then and how crime has gone up? Where do you think it will end?

Here is what I see. People are starting to not be able to take scociety as we have created it. Our answer? Drugs to allow them to get back in the game. That is kinda like a sci-fi movie isn't it? I am sure some of you will dissagree. But if you do, how do you account for the rise in mental illness? Most peoples desire to keep moving, and the urge to get things done faster? Computer were supposed to take our work and make it easier. Now it is just easier to take home. Lines are being blured, and freedom is at stake I feel.

Freedom? In the U.S. we now pay a much higher tax rate than we paid to the british before the boston tea party. It is now law to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle. Kids are being thrown in jail for 10 years + over money (piracy) while murderes and rapists get less time.

We are starting to turn the courtship of a man and a woman into an event. (Reality shows) When do the death penalty shows start? In a society when morals and decency are taught to us through a box that plugs into a wall where are we headed? What are your thoughts? I am talking about society as a whole, not you. Dont post well I don't...
Posted By: Gremelin

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 09:03 AM

Me, Weeve, 80% of UPIN...
Posted By: windead

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 01:48 PM

Freedom? Considering almost every country is run by a totalitarian, north america is completely run by totalitarians, pretty much every human on earth is domesticated and if they find a group that isnt they send over scientists to study them which *completely* destroys the non-domesticated society, and there are lots more things that show just how "free" we are. social norms are at an all-time high, if we dont fit that mold we are shunned. Kicked out of society. we pretty much have to live the way they want us to or they [censored] us over. Personally, i beleive big brother watches everyone...
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 04:00 PM

hahaha.. i think i've been on every anti-depressant they make! oh- except for effexor. but i will probably be on that one soon. gotta call the doc in a few minutes laugh but yes, things are way too fast paced and the mental/health problems are starting younger and younger in kids. it's pretty shitty when you're 7 years old and have post-traumatic stress syndrome. (Calvin has that.. he's JC's little bro) i remember when i was first diagnosed with my anxiety disorder. i was 11. it was still really rare i guess. but now i know a shitload of people that have problems with it.
Posted By: sinetific

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 04:10 PM

The government breeds us to pay for their system. We are their workers, their cattle, their sheep. Whatever you want to call us. Do you not like the life your government maintains for you? Transportation, security, health care, indoor plumbing, heat, electricity, education, this access to information we call the internet? Maybe there's a rise of mentally ill people now, because we're able to address them, when before they would either be killed, or ignored, or something else along those lines. For some reason now we value life. All life is precious, or some crap like that. Thats exactly what I think of when I hear the names charles manson or jeffrey dohmer. Precious. Yeah they might of started off as normal babies, but there interpretation of society made them into whatever they were. There is a reason that people who dont fit the mold shunned, because we dont want them in our gene pool. In old times if someone had a birth defect they were thrown into a ravine, if they were nutz they were stoned to death or exiled. This isnt a recent phenomenon.

These words seem odd coming from my mouth. I used to think just like that and try to fight the system, but the system will win every time. The system is just the enactment of the views and interests of the majority of our population. If you try to go against the flow your just going to be swept away. The best thing is to jump in and try to change the direction once you get to the front.
Posted By: SilentRage

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 04:53 PM

I dunno. Maybe I'm domesticated. Cause I don't smoke, I don't take drugs to calm myself or escape, and yet I don't get stressed out or depressed. And as long as the government leaves me alone, it can do what it wants. If they do something particularly stupid, then I'll keep up on current events, but otherwise, I don't really care. I don't read the newspaper except every monday when there's a Business & Technology section. As for a fast paced life? I keep mine at a walk. If everybody was just like me, then there'd be no wars, cause everybody would get along. I am the prototype they base heaven on. Just call me Jesus.
Posted By: Scalli0n

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 05:03 PM

I'll post my true thoughts in the form of IRC logs:

Do you not like the life your government maintains for you?
Not that that's personal criticism, just a note for when you write professionally.
Posted By: windead

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 05:05 PM

lol, we value life? Look at the world right now. Let's see, middle east has been fighting eachother for 1000's of years, theres war, famine, disease, and death in general everywhere, theres the war bush is starting up which he calls "The war where no one dies" of course, hes only talking about americans that wont die (arnt they the only ones that matter anyway?) our culture is based on greed, hate, rivallry, and everything that keeps us hating something or someone all the time. We're never "at peace" or "happy" so we're never free.
Posted By: SilentRage

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 05:12 PM

gosh dang, that IRC quote makes it look like I think the same way. I truly don't care what you guys talk about, I just don't find them as much of an issue - hence my sarcastic post, and the humor I found in it.
Posted By: $500,000 Bentley

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 11:16 PM

anyone ever read the book rainbow six?the baddys had a solution to the fast paced improvement in computers etc.
Posted By: Scalli0n

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/28/03 11:57 PM

yeah that was a good book. of late though, Tom Clancy's work looks more theatrical and less realistic - but then again, he's delving into the future with the rate at which his books progress, and as he does that, the probability of those events decreases (I.E. Jack Ryan - falling into Gov't service, a few years later, he's president.)
Posted By: ohfuk

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 01:03 AM

the natural order of things is disorder. look at nature, for it is in nature that you will find truth. the elements will scatter ever particly of this planet all over if not controled. well not everything, but you should get the idea. society tries to control everthing, so there will be less disorder, for it is only this way that we can succeed in societies eyes. basically- society drives us away from nature, away from truth. This can seriously [censored] with individuals heads. and it seriously [censored] people up.
Posted By: sinetific

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 01:52 AM

Don't confuse physics with human nature. I really dont think humans tend to go towards disorder, anarchy, or chaos, because we wouldn't have any type of society if that were true. Humans, if left alone in some island tribe or some [censored], always form communities and establish some sort of leadership within it. If thats not order what is?

Scally, I kinda like the way that sounds and I cant really think of a way to re-word it to get the same effect as when I say it that way. I guess I could've used a contraction but, to me, it would have lost emphasis.
Posted By: Scalli0n

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 05:19 AM

You sound like an english teacher from the 1800's.

Try "What's so terrible about the life your gov't provides for you?"

Use different vocabulary to bypass inversion.
Posted By: Drake

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 06:17 AM

I can't bring myself to work up as much anti-government enthusiasm as you all seem to be doing. I agree with silentrage. most of the stuff they do doesn't seem to affect me, so i don't care.
windead, please excuse me for my ignorance, but who exactly are the totalitarians running north america?
sintax, the only people i know who are on drugs, need to be on drugs. i don't know much about rise in mental illness or anything, but if byron wasn't on anti-depressants he'd have commited suicide, and if jordan wasn't on whatever the fuk he's on, he's probably have killed somebody else by now. i realize those names don't mean anything to you, there just friends of mine.
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 06:43 AM


C'mon folks, stay with computers and leave this BS behind.
It is the off topic forum. I take that to mean not relating to computers since everything else in here dose.

This post wasn't to start any talk about fighting the system. The system is us. or people we put in charge of the system. I am just wondering if anyone else see's some of the things I am seeing? More and more broken homes, mothers leaving kids for careers, dead beat dads, kids becoming numb at much younger ages than just 10 years ago.

Anyone see this? How many divorced families do you know? How many mothers have to leave their babies at a bay sitter to work? Now I am talking about mothers who want to stay home with their kids. I might catch some flack for this, but in nature that is the normal way right? A mother stays by her babies side to help it develop and nurture it. What are the long term effects of changing some of these natural events?

How hot dose it get in a city during the summer verses a country environment? What effect dose this have on people?

I am not saying to do anything, but just raising some questions. Take a look at growing up today.

1.) You are born to mom (if lucky and dad)

2.) Mom goes back to work after 2 weeks to 6 moths after you are born. You go to a baby sitter

3.) Now we start teaching you about society with all the children television shows you watch at the baby sitters.

4.) You make friends and lose them as kids are pulled out do to their or your parents switch day care or jobs.

5.) Mom and dad get home and are exhausted, you are excited to see them, so you all watch more TV (sound about right?) Why do you think they call it programming?

6.) You start school. Learn to read write and are folded further into the fold we call society. You are taught about sharing, glue paste and how to stand in line. How to stand in the corner. How fighting is bad, how we should feel about things.

7.) You start to learn how to not share. YOu learn about bullies, lies, how to read, and write, math. You learn how to make friends faster. You learn how to pick on other kids. You learn a bit about authority

8.) Move on to middle school and you learn more about self structure. Authority, books, more lines. Less parents, more friends, maybe you have moved once or twice.

9.) High school, now you don't really wana deal with mom and dad as much but they have a little more time. Maybe you have a girlfriend/boyfriend. Little drama in the social life. You start planing your whole life in high school. What you wana become, who your friends will be.

10.) Collage or work.

11.) Start your own family. Some will do this in steps 9 and or 10.

For something we are supposed to be... People spend a lot of time training us how to act. 18 years you have someone teaching you how to fit into scociety. Think about it. All the TV, teachers, babysitters, even parents, all teach you how to blend in. How to not draw attention to yourself.

In public school how many out going girls did you know? I am talking about in class. How many did you know that were not too shy to stand out by volunteering, or answering the oral questions?

How many girls do you know that have been sexually assaulted by the age of 16? 80% of the girls you know have been. 20% of them will be rapped by 18.

How many of them have 2 working parents that are incredibly busy? How much money dose your job alone generate for the company you work for?
Posted By: Curse

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 07:37 AM

I think the rise in mental illness may be partially due to medical malpractice insurance... If a psycologist exams a person and he doesn't think the person is truely depressed or has a mental issue, and the person turns around and does something anti-social, the psycologist may be sued for everything he owns... So psycologists tend to write alot of prescriptions...

And it seems like public school is the government's way of teaching kids to grow up and conform, they say be yourself, yet they enact dress codes, fail you for political incorrectness, threaten to have you arrested if you hold a protest about a school policy, abuse your Constitutional rights, and so on...
Something else, I was reading a student conduct guide, and one of the things that teachers are required to report to the police is "immorallity"...

People are affraid to stand up to the government anymore, and whenever someone does stand up, they make the person sound like a terrorist or a nazi or communist trader...

People choose to vote by whoever the news media makes sound the best...

Something I was just thinking about... When was the last time someone who was born to a poor lower class working family grew up and became president? And when was the last time a third party canidate was even mentioned by the news?
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 10:24 AM

hrmm... i don't think we can blame the government for the rise in mental health issues. isn't it funny how people try to blame EVERYTHING on the government? [censored].. sometimes we just have to realize that not everything is their fault. seriously.. since humans have existed we have been progressing in every area. it's only natural that the more advanced we become the more fast paced society becomes. it's not the government's doing. i'm sick of these [censored] people who [censored] and moan about how awful this government is. ya know what? no matter where you go, you're going to [censored] [censored] about that government. not one government that has ever been created has been perfect. sometimes we just have to suck it up and realize that fact. Hitler was damn close to having the ideal government. And i'm not just saying that because i like the guy. if you actually go back and look, he had some of the most ingenious ideas. he actually did care about his people. (yeah.. laugh if you want to, but it's [censored] true!) he took Germany and turned it completely around. he started with a crumbling government and turned it into a functioning one. he fixed the economy. well.. until the allied forces decided it'd be fun to start a war with him. that kinda screwed 'em over. at any rate.. he balanced capitolism and fascism. he had a whole mix of ideals that really can't be put into one category. and that is the closest to a 'perfect' government that you will ever find.

btw: don't bother [censored] bitching at me, because you won't change my mind on this fact. plus, i'm probably too damned lazy to check for any replies. oh- and i know some of you are youngens, but still, dont go preaching to me about what you think you know about Hitler. you'd be surprised about the lies have been spread laugh ahhh... US propaganda.. isn't it grand??
Posted By: Gremelin

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 10:32 AM

flesh, i can change your mind on issues, look at all the times in the past i have :x... But I have ADD and I don't have my glasses, so I can't really comment on large chunks of words lol...
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 11:31 AM

Yea, a scarier thought is we are kinda back to royalty. When we are electing certain families over and over again.


I saw a movie about 6 months ago called steal this movie. I highly recomend it. It was about a political activist in the 60's and 70's named Abbie Hoffman. The movie title is a spin off of his famous book. Yup, "Steal this book".

He was forced underground for I think 2 decades by the government. He was able to prove they miss used thier power and broke the law to go aftr him. He proved this in a U.S. court of law.

He was allowed to go back to his life. But nothing happend to the people in power. Our generation dosen't seem to have anyone with this kind of conviction to fight for our rights.

Can't same I blame anyone. Look at what happened to Abbie. It only take one person to lead a protest or start a grass roots movement to make change. Sadly that person is usaly destroyed for it, while everyone else gets to move on. Being first is allways punished.

Some info on ole Abbie

I'm not sure what our generation needs, but it did get screwed along the way.
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 06:51 PM

remember the political witchhunt they launched against Macarthy? i don't know why they were so damned terrified of communism, but they started going after people and calling them communists, whether they were or not. it's just kind of odd when somebody opposes the person in power, how they all of a sudden are the most horrible person on Earth.
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 09:51 PM

Yea I read about all of that. It's kinda repeating it's self now. Back then anyone the government wanted to get rid of was marked a red(red = communist).

Now everyone that opposes the government or authority is a terrorist. It is the same propaganda re-spun to fit the day. Just imagine if you were named a terrorist on the news. Many wouldn't even need any proof. You would be marked.

The government has not had this much power since the days of Abbie Hoffman. The reason is they abused it and ruined peoples lives over political gain. Now we are at a new generation and not many remember or care.

As you get older you are less likely to challenge the system. I can't think of a revolution led by anyone in the 30's. It usually starts with collage aged people. So many rights are being trampled right now... I guess we are safer when we are watched. (Jello Biafra line).

Back to the main topic though. The way we live can not be good for the human psychology. If you get a good job you are in a 5 by 5 cubical staring at a screen all day. Even better you can deal with stress so much you get an ulsar.

Anyone the a problem here? It is like every year we give up more and get less back.
Posted By: Drake

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 10:09 PM

Fleshy, I'm pretty sure McCarthy led the red scare.
Posted By: dashocker

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 11:22 PM

hmm, well all this is very interesting, but the point is, we can't do anything about the way our society is. one person can't make a difference. that's the way society is. now that i'm done with that, Scalli0n who do you think you are? you are the one who sounds like the english teacher. i'm not trying to be an [censored] or anything, but listen to yourself. leave the grammar to me smile
the mental illnesses in this country have gone up because they can now be treated. btw, violence has NOT gone up. It's actually gone down, but MEDIA COVERAGE of violence has gone up something like 600%. The number of guns in households has gone up. I agree with you learner that it's [censored] some guy who smokes pot goes to prison for 5 years and the monster who has raped 10 little girls can't even be convicted because of lack of evidence or they get off on some technicality. that may sound like 'guilty until proven innocent' but that's they way our society is now- adays. I totally don't get why your against bicycle safety. "OMG, I have to wear a helmet so I don't die if I get in a crash! How stupid!" Yes helmets look dumb but they save lives, same with seat belts. These laws may be limiting some freedoms, but I'm sure you wouldn't complain if your child was saved because he/she was mandatorally(made-up word) wearing a helmet. Maybe we should focus more on John "Hitler rules!" Ashcroft who trys to rip apart the Constitution on a regular basis. the fact people are killed because they are different is not something to be proud of. a sign of the advance of human civilization is that we now try to help these people live healthy lives instead of throwing them off a ravine. onto the point about taxes, in case you didn't know, a dollar was worth a lot more on or before 1776 than it is today. simply put, money was worth more. do you have a problem with the price of tea? i don't think a couple dollars is worth bitching about. the enlgish also had a sugar tax. do you have a problem with the price of sugar? what about income tax? it may be high, but its called taxation WITH representation. we know where our tax money goes. the english just took our tax money to line their pockets. our taxes go to government services and projects that help make our lives better in one way or another.
oh yeah, reality shows definetly suck a big one. its called a 'fad.' hopefully...

Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/29/03 11:27 PM

Yep.. my bad. had that one switched around in my memory. Damn, been a long time since high school history class! laugh thank you for pointing that out!

He pointed out communists and then took them trial. Most of them were convicted, but a lot of them weren't even communist. Scared people from commiting to the communist party for a long time.
Posted By: windead

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/30/03 05:16 AM

fleshy: you said that hitler raised the economy? so did stalin, and he was one of the worst leaders ever. he brought Russia from a 3rd world country to 2nd. the economy was booming, and he tried to look after his people too. he was still horrible. hitler was in a way a great leader, but in another he was as bad as stalin, if not worse. he got the economy going, but then used propoganda to raise the moral of his country. he was an amazing speaker and could convine his people of anything. so he made a lot of german citizens very happy, they had money, they knew they had a great leader, and all in all they felt very secure. but then he took away their freedom, and still convinced them it was good. he enslaved most of his country and was still able to keep a good economy and have his people be proud to have him as their leader. when all they knew was what he told them, how could they not be happy? it doesnt mean he was a great guy, or a person to be looked up too. and i have done extensive research on this topic, and not just through resources available in north america. so i've been able to find out which parts america just made up, and what actually happened.

dashocker: (dead kennedy's quote) "All that time spent going to school, just to end up following rules" is that really how you want to live your life? and your children to live theirs? under non-stop oppression? thats how society works, and one person cant make a difference on their own, but it only takes 1 person to gather a large group of people. and if they gather a majority they can make a huge difference. america was created on the basis of freedom, and now its going completely the other way. bush is taking away constitutional rights, taking away things like freedom of thought (bush quote "your either with us, or with the terrorists" which of course leaves us no median to consider both sides), and freedom of speech (with all his terrorist crap hes convinced a lot of america that if someone bad-mouths america they are terrorists and therefore not human). these are just a couple of exmaples of the crap that the gov't does.

and people wonder why we blame the gov't after they shape society, and anyone outside of society is crazy? or are extreme left-wingers and therefore have no sensible thoughts on politics so they should be ignored? this country is under "censorship-rule" (to quote KMFDM), and your damn right i blame the gov't...
Posted By: §intå×

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/30/03 05:55 AM

I do not blame the rise in mental illness on the government. I blame it on all of us and our desire to have more now now now. Check it out. Primative man used to be able to sit by them selves for hours and be content.

I get edgy if I wait too long in the drive thru. Think about modern stress. Things that come from only modern things.

Road Rage

Telemarketers calling in the middle of sex (well it pisses me off)

Children expecting more at xmass because if santa loves them he will get thier toys. (This really boomed since the advent of TV)

Less time with your families then you would have had at the same age 30 years ago (reffering to most office type jobs)

Our culture now actualy embraces con-artists. Yes we do. You call them players. Con a girl who loves you out of money or sex. Well sex is cool, but men who mooch off chicks? Yea real cool. Or the lil Kims of the world who basicaly belive prostitution is cool.

I give you sex if you buy me what I want. These are some of the messages children are having pumped into them thru the TV.

We are building a scoceity based on materials and not morals. If you have enough Material you can go around Morals. Just ask OJ.
Posted By: ohfuk

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/30/03 04:04 PM

windead, you said that bush has taken away our freedom of speach and freedom of thought, and i think thats going a little too far. mainly because i, or anyone, can say whatever the [censored] they want on any subject infront of anyone and not actually get prosicuted for it. for example, "I hate America!"...see no ones knocking on my door. and being this discussion is even going on means people can openly talk about there thoughts and fealing on terrorist, anarchy, society, or anything really. now ofcourse the president and the gov't will try to convince us to belive cirtain things that will raise their power and they might try to perswade us that they are the ultimate goodness and we are on the right side, but no one has been prosicuted for what they think.

more evidence to sugest that society is [censored] us up-divorce rate is rising(at 51% for young couples), freshman girls at my school want to suck my dick(not at all a bad thing for me, but for society?), there putting [censored] in the water!, drug use is rising, pcp is gaining popularity again, premarital pregnancy rates are soring, gangs are everywhere, even in the white suburbs, and thats about all i got for now...

Quote of the day:
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you. Rita Mae Brown
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/30/03 05:57 PM

Hitler as bad or worse than Stalin? How? Honestly... tell me how! From all the research I've done on it, Hitler really didn't do anything as awful as Stalin did. Hitler didn't kill nearly as many people as Stalin did. Stalin slayed millions of his own people. Hitler didn't. Stalin was part of the Social Democratic Party. Hitler was involved in the National Socialist Party. Stalin was a communist, Hitler was not. Hitler cared about his people, Stalin didn't.
Hitler was a great leader. He took care of his people, even designed a car that was inexpensive, reliable and fuel efficient so that all of his people could have a car. He had the belief that everyone should have a good mode of transportation. Know what car that was that he came up with? The Volkswagen Beetle. Yep, that's right. Hitler designed the beetle. Hitler also was a huge animal rights activist. He was very much against testing products of any kind on animals. He demanded an end to animal exploitation. Does that sound like a heartless man to you? No. Believe it or not, Hitler was not the devil as many would lead you to believe. He just held some very strong beliefs and stuck to those beliefs. No one can say that Hitler didn't do exactly as he promised the German people he would do. He fixed the economy, created jobs, tried to make things easier for his people. He was a nationalist, and he took care of Germany. He tried desperatly to avoid WWII. He knew that it would only ruin the economy he had built up. He didn't want his people to suffer from that.

so how can you tell me that Hitler was worse than Stalin? Did Hitler go off and start slaying people by the millions? No, he didn't. And no, the whole "jews made into soap" thing is NOT true either. Want to know how many people total he ordered murdered at Auschwitz? 3000. Three thousand people. compared to Stalin's what.. 8 million in Ukraine alone? That's not even counting the rest of the former USSR. that is one state from it. and he slaughtered 8 million. wtf? prove to me how that is worse than Hitler!

one other thing: you sound like you're the kind of leftist that Stalin was! you [censored] and moan about how "oppressed" we are? what the [censored] are you thinking? honestly! wow.. if we're oppressed here just think how those Russians felt under Stalin. Seriously, if we are so [censored] oppressed you wouldn't be able to say what you are saying. we do still have freedom of speech, look at all the demonstrators that are protesting the war. so clearly your thinking here is a bit flawed. I'm so sick of people blaming the government for everything. jesus [censored] christ... quit whining like a little [censored]. if it really bothers you so much, go DO something about it. really, as much as you liberals hate to hear it, Bush isn't the devil. He may have some [censored] up thought processes and some bad foreign policy, but that doesn't make him [censored] evil. and as much as you hate to hear this, the government can't be blamed for everything either. as much as you want to blame them for everything, you just can't. who the [censored] do you think elected our congressman? who elected the president? the people did. so go [censored] blame them for the bad judgement in picking a leader. Don't [censored] at him because he got elected. what.. do you expect him to run for president then when he gets elected say, "nahh.. i don't think i'm going to be president because some of my policies aren't that great." no.. of course not. you'd have to be an idiot to expect that to happen. while i don't particularly cheer in favor of this government all the time either, i'm not about to say that they have crushed our freedom to do everything.

ya know, i've been on anti-depressants since i was 11. do i blame the government for that? [censored] no! they had nothing to do with me having an anxiety disorder and depression. who do i blame? no one. it's just something that happened. depression runs in my family, it was bound to happen to me. that has nothing to do with the government what so ever. it's all about genetics and health in that department.

now, about the divorce rate and drug use: i doubt that the government is forcing people into divorce. i doubt they are spoon feeding every drug addict their daily dose. is it society as a whole that is to blame? maybe. but really it is the individual person where the blame should come to rest. the little freshmen girls that want to sick ohfuks dick.. blame their parents. if their parents would maybe pay more attention, or talk to them about it or something, these young girls wouldn't feel the need to do that. Parents need to take a lot more accountability for their children's stupid actions. teach your kid some [censored] morals and standards. actually pay attention to you [censored] kid! set a good example for you kid. try to raise your kid to be a good person. teach you kid to value things such as marraige, sex, and sobriety. above all things, people need to [censored] pull their heads out of their asses and stop getting married for the wrong reasons! people need to get some morals and stop adultery. i'm sure that has some negative effects on a marraige. arghhhhhhhh!
Posted By: jonconley

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/31/03 04:06 PM

OK. Maybe I am crazy here, but if you live in a country and someone like Stalin or Hitler is in power, they can do whatever they want. If they absolve citizens rights to life even, that is their choice. Now to go into other countries and do this, would be wrong. But if I rule say Afghanistan, and feel I would be serving a purpose by easing the country of 90% of the population, that doesn't make me a bad person. Atleast not in my eyes.

Who cares what other countries think? It doesn't matter. Only when I violate the rights of people I do not have power over, should it be considered wrong. And no, there are no god given rights. Maybe you and your little religion believe that, but that is your personal view. If your leader doesn't believe in that, then that opinion is irrelevant.

So Stalin a bad guy? Hitler a bad guy? Saddam a bad guy? No. They just have different views and ways of doing things. If they got into power, then they HAVE THE POWER to do what they want. Survival of the fittest.
Posted By: sinetific

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 01/31/03 06:47 PM

umm isnt saying hitler designed the Volkswagon Beetle along the same lines of Al Gore inventing the internet? Yes, maybe he thought all germans should have reliable affordable transportation, but come on now. He wasn't an engineer. He was a maniac. The man was going to kill his own people after they failed to fulfil his plan by deystroying all of germany's crops and poisoning the soil.
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 01:42 AM

actually, Hitler met with the head of Daimler-Benz. He drew up what he wanted the car to look like and gave it to Jakob Werlin. He told him that he wanted a car that was inexpensive, reliable and fuel efficient. He told Jakob to take his idea to the car manufacturers and figure everything out then make it. He said that he didn't know much about that stuff, so take and show it to people who did know. so that is how Hitler desigened the Volkswagen. Yep.. thank you very much. i'm right you're wrong. too bad i actually know my [censored] here, so don't try saying i'm wrong. this all took place in the summer of 1932. So no, saying Hitler invented the Volkswagen is NOT like Al Gore saying he invented the internet. I've actually seen Hitler's drawing of the car, the one he gave to Jakob. so booyahhh!
Posted By: Scalli0n

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 04:28 AM

Wow, you [censored], I wont even finish the insult. You're not worth that much of my time.
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 04:56 AM

uhh.. i know you're not talking to me like that. muhahahaha. laugh
Posted By: windead

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 07:23 AM

3000? i did a huge project on auschwitz not too long ago, i had over 30 sources and they all said 1.6 million people killed at aushwitz. that includes german sources, and even pro-hitler sources. somehow i doubt they would be trying to make him look worse than he was. and hitler did kill his people, thats what the holocaust was about. killing off all the jews in germany, and anyone who disagreed with him.

and i never said anything about blaming our personal problems on the government. but here in canada, the government is horrible. we dont have *any* free votes, its the parliament that decides who elects the prime minister, and the prime minister controls parliament. and i have gone to protests here, and you think they just let us? hell no. we get the [censored] kicked outta us by cops. some great freedom of expression there. and in case you havnt noticed all the pro-american rednecks and jocks who'll shoot you if you say anything bad about america. its because bush has pretty much said that if you badmouth america, your pro-terrorist. "your either with us, or with the terrorists" so if you dont like the government your a terrorist? and i never said we have completely lost those rights, but they are slowly being taken away. Bush is already greatly restricting freedom of information, which is fairly obvious if you look at all his new policies and proposed laws.

and you really think we're free? a few months ago i had a tri-hawk, and a cop interrogated me because i looked suspicious. i was just standing there talking to a friend and he came up to me and threw me into a wall, frisked me, took my jacket because it had an anarchy sign on it, told me how people like me should be shot, while his partner was trying to get my friend to tell them any illegal things i do? [censored] like that makes me blame the government, and makes me hate them. that may not be the worst oppression, but that doesnt mean it isnt oppression. and they do that all the time! i have a lot of punk friends in New York, and they get beat up by cops almost regularly. once in a while they might be caught with a joint, or loitering, but apart from that they arnt doing anything illegal. protests especially, almost always police brutality there.

the only reason i can get away with what i'm saying is anonymity. the reason people like jello biafra and noam chomsky sort of get away with it, is because they're famous. and i say sort of, because they are forced into an underground culture. they are both amazing writers, but rarely get any kind of spotlight because they are so controversial. you dont think theres much oppression going on in north america? read some of noam chomsky's books.
Posted By: Scalli0n

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 08:15 AM

windead: did you file a complaint against the police station?

Please tell me you did, because otherwise you're just a worthless, cowardly piece of [censored] that's helping the Gov't take away your rights by not standing up for yourself.

And btw, I'm not a redneck, nor am I a jock, but I still love America.
Posted By: windead

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 06:21 PM

ya, i went to the station, talked to the officer in charge, and he just laughed. said i could file an official complaint, but that would just be ignored because "i'm obviously just making up lies because they took my jacket" (which they took because of an anarchy sign? wtf...) and then of course my dad got involved and said i shouldnt make a complaint because then they'd be more pissed at me. [censored]...

and i wasnt talking about everyone who likes america, but i have personally run into quite a few rednecks and jocks (only those 2 social groups) who were "extremist pro-american". ready to kill to keep the "good name" of america.
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 06:50 PM

well windead, i'm sorry that you had incorrect info in your project! i'm sure during your research you stumbled upon a man named Rudolph Hoss. if you don't remember who he is, he was the former Auschwitz commanding officer. He was in charge of it all there. Well, in 1946 the US submitted his "confession" to the Nuremberg trial. Turns out, that about 5 British officers who captured him, tortured him until he finally said he'd confess. He later said that he would have confessed to anything to stop the torture. An investigation was held, and turned out that what he said was true. He was tortured to the point where he finally did sign the confession without even reading it. He just got a pen and signed his name.

furthermore, if you look at aerial photos taken of the Auschwitz prisons, you can see that there are NO piles of dead bodies, nothing like that at all. Also, photos taken inside the camps "gas chambers" proove that there is NO way that those could have been used as a gas chamber at all. there was no way to filter out the gas after they supposedly gassed people. now, you'd have to have a way to filter out so that the people that went in after the 'gassings' could collect those dead bodies and not be killed by the gas as well. it would take at least 3 days for the gas to naturally dissapte. also, the room was so small that they couldn't have fit the 'hundreds of jews' in there. they could about 75 at the most. Many of the survivors from Auschwitz also said that they had never seen any evidence of mass killings and that they were treated pretty well there. Sure, some people died, but that's when Typhus was running rampid. Hitler ordered a seperate camp built to house those who were sick with it so that they couldn't spread it to the healthy people. It was known as Auschwitz IV. That is were the majority of people died, and that was because of they were very ill.

It has been proven by many people that there was nothing to suggest that Hitler or anyone associated with him had concocted some scheme to kill people in mass quantities. Hitler was very meticulous about accounting for every penny he spent. He had very detailed records kept. When those were attained, there was never anything to suggest that he had instituted some huge "killing camp" at all. No, even when all of his secret documents were seized, those never spoke of any mass killings either.

So you see, it was not Hitler's intent to kill millions of people. The day that a person arrived in any of his prisons, they were immediatly checked by the docter. If they were ill, they were sent to the hospital to get better. Many of them did! He did not make the sick people work at his prisons either. He only made the healthy people work. He even ordered that there be football (soccer) fields built so the prisoners had something recreational to do. Wow, really sounds like a man intent on slaughtering millions huh? No. There is NO evidence to coincide with that story and it has been rejected by the top historians and Holocuast researchers.

oh, and just so you know, Auschwitz wasn't in Germany. It was in Poland. All of those so called "death camps" you hear about are located in Poland. Oh, and if you've heard of Wolzek, too bad. There was NEVER any camp or prison ever named Wolzek. It was made up.
Posted By: thebluegiant

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 08:30 PM

I know people who were in the concentration camps.
I know people who liberated them.

I like you fleshy, but don't try and [censored] say it didn't happen.
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 09:53 PM

hahahaha.. oh BG! i like you too. and i'm sorry that you think that Hitler had some plan for mass extermination of his people. because it's simply not true. i'm not saying that nobody died at any of the camps, because they did. but the most that he ordered killed were 3000. they were executed for their crimes. much like we do it here in the US. people commit a heinous crime, they are executed for it. He did the same thing. that doesn't make him a monster. all the other people that died in those prisons died for other reasons. like typhus, i mentioned that earlier. also when the USSR came and tried to invade Poland, many of the people at the camps were killed. Hitler tried to have them all moved safely to other places, unfortunatly some of them didn't make it. Anne Frank for instance, she was at Auschwitz when the Russians invaded. She was moved safely to Bergen-Belsen. If Hitler wanted them all dead he wouldn't have cared if the Russians killed them or not. But he did care, so that is why they were moved. That is why they were hospitalized when they were ill. That's why when their sentence had been fulfilled, they were free to go.

I know what all of you have "learned" in school. Too bad most of it isn't true. Not only on this issue. People love to manipulate history and change things around. You know how Bush is trying to come up with reasons to go to war with Iraq? You see how he hasn't any real evidence against him, so he's pulling at truths and stretching them into lies? All so he can have a reason to go to war? Well, that is very much like what the Allied Forces did in WWII. They made things up, told lies, did everything they could just so that they could go to war with Germany. Let's it put it this way, when the Allied Forces held the Nuremberg Trials, they didn't care about the truth or evidence to support any claims made.

"The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence."

Article 19 of the Statutes of the International Military Tribunal (in reality: the Inter-allied Military Tribunal) at Nuremberg

"The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge, but shall take judicial notice thereof."

Article 21 of the Statutes

that alone proves that they knew there was no evidence to prove anything they were saying. so they said they didn't any evidence. wow.. really fair trial huh?

also - ya know.. i'm the only one here throwing out any specifics. i am mentioning specific names and places. those are facts. you can look those up. all you do to refute me is say that you did some project so you know i'm wrong. seems that i'm proving my point a lot better than any of you can prove yours.
Posted By: thebluegiant

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 10:29 PM

No, no projects. I mean I know(in some cases knew-they're getting old), and am friends with these people.

I've heard the stories, seen the tatoos.
Seen the pictures of friends and family never seen again.

I don't need to read any reports or documents or projects to know the truth fleshy, I simply listen to those that were there.

You're not saying that they're part of the conspiracy too now, are you?

Oh, and you want specifics. One woman, one who I've seen in tears talking about this was at Aushwitz. The place where your 30,000 died from disease because they were criminals. She was a child, her sisters were children, her parents had committed no crime.
Her parents died.

Want more?
Posted By: jonconley

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/01/03 10:40 PM

How about all the HItler debate gets put into a new forum. And rather than all you that care about this, not using facts. Each person take the facts that you know (LIST YOUR SOURCES) and then allow the other person to refute them. I am not interested in this, but its obviously getting OT in this thread and seems that some of you feel strongly about this. So take it elsewhere, debate it, give sources.evidence, (TBG list what was told by whom and where) and see where it comes out. Hell, it might even end up being constructive?

Windead: Sorry to hear what happened. I wouldn't report it though, b/c cops have too much power. It is just something about government that sucks sometime. The fact is, if you have enough things happen, keep them documented, have all your friends document it, and then give it to various news sources.

Think, the government doesn't like to make itself look bad, and by admitting what you did, it would. However, media loves to expose things like this, so you get all the "evidence" together and give to alot of media outlets. It becomes public knowledge and then the government has to do "Spin control" and go after the police, b/c not doing so, would make them look bad.

Congratulations, you have just turned the tables on them.
Posted By: fleshwound

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/02/03 12:03 AM

jonathon, you read the same stuff i did. you know i'm right. laugh

BG: sorry to hear about your woman that was in tears. really too bad because people were never gassed Auschwitz or anywhere else. You say her parents died.. how? you didn't mention how they died. Don't try to tell me that they were gassed, because it is impossible. There was no way any of the supposed "gas chambers" actually could have been just that. There have been many reports on this by gassing experts and by people who were there. Yes, even most of the Jewish people that were there admit that the gassings never happened. One woman even said she knew nothing of the gassings until she was released and heard about it years later!

you're right. a lot of the people in those prisons hadn't commited any crimes. they were exiled from Germany because they werre Jewish. Hitler didn't want the Jews in his country. So, they were "exported" to Poland and put into the camps. But then again, there were actual criminals that were also in those prisons. Those were the ones that were murdered.
Posted By: Cold Sunn

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/02/03 12:51 AM

Hitler was not a good leader. Hitler was a [censored] sour painter that took advantage of a vulnerable and desparate country. It doesn't [censored] matter whether they used gas or ovens, they were murdered. People that defend Hitler are usually full of [censored]. [censored] that.

I am so cool and smart because i say things like "bypass inversion."

Reason enough to go to WW2: Hitler wanted world domination and was killing people. If no one did anything the world would be alot worse.

No one has all the facts, so don't [censored] say that you do. According to the State of the Union Address, Iraq has had 12 years to disarm. They found new nuclear warheads, sarin (sp?) gas, and anthrax. I doubt that Saddam was part of the AlQaida network, but that doesn't mean he isn't evil.

fleshy- i like you, but please don't do that [censored].

Now, let's cut this hitler-stalin-bush bullshit and get back to the topic.

I think we value human life more and less. On the morning news before school, there are clips of a local woman who was in a car wreck, her dead body and everything. Stories about people being raped or kidnapped. Before I go to school, I see this. This is why I stopped watching the news.

We also try to save people that have terminal illnesses. We are taking the power away from natural selection.

We talk about how crazy it was that people would kill people they thought to be witches. And we think it is crazy that people killed people because they thought they were greedy and caused a depression.

No one can think entirely for themselves, because we are influenced by the things we see and hear. Otherwise, we wouldn't have any opinion period, it is ridiculous to think you can have an opinion on something you don't know about at all.

Aside from tbg and Learner, I thought most of the posts here were a waste of time to read. Most, not all.

I think that society is about as bad and good as it has almost always been, just in a bigger ratio. We can't cut out the good just to get rid of the bad. I think that is why there is a hell if there is a heaven. There has to be a reason for it to impossible for everything to be good without any bad somewhere else.

People are dying of aids and starvation in Africa while people here are buying condoms to keep from having children (as well as prevent the spread of std's) and suing fast food companies for making them too fat (thank God those radges lost). By here I mean America. It isn't some fantastic country, but it is pretty bad other places to make up for it.
Posted By: SilentRage

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/02/03 03:17 AM

heh, I think Cold Sunn at at least one good point there. fleshwounds stance does seem kinda foolish.

"oh, sure, a lot of jews died in concentration camps but they weren't gassed, so that's ok"

"yeah, a lot of jews were put in concentration camps but a lot of them were criminals so that's ok"

"it was only the criminals that died in concentration camps." (ahum, yeah, it's a crime to be a jew)

Ya know, I gotta be fair. I have lots of respect for Hitler. But there's no way in hell I'm going to defend his actions (*simpering voice* he was a victim of bad childhood and environment...)
Posted By: jonconley

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/02/03 03:35 AM

I tend to disagree. I originally disagreed with Fleshwound, but I read the sources and compared the evidence, and yes Jews died. But the numbers and the methods were exagerrated. And that wouldn't seem like a big deal but it was 1,000s and not 1,000,000s. And alot of the deaths were from a disease that was going around. Not only that, but Hitler put the people in a separate camp so they wouldn't infect other Jews. And it wasn't just jews. Anyways, read the Holocaust Revisionist topic in OFFTOPIC and check out the links, and then reply.

I understand what you ppl are saying, and I was saying the same things first also. But your theories and facts are largely coming from what ppl have seen and been taught. Look for yourselves.

And no, I am not trying to make Hitler out to be a saint. But he sure as [censored] wasn't the antichrist either. He simply didn't want Jews in his country, so he moved them to Poland.

And world domination? A bad thing? Agreed maybe, but I know someone else who is taking out leaders of other countries and appointing ppl he can control. The United States. We have done it for years.

All I am saying is check out those links. Refute them with evidence, not opinion.
Posted By: SilentRage

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/02/03 01:19 PM

I have never cared about exaggerations. Shoot, in this case, the exaggerations were probably just to get people upset over the atrocities that DID happen. And atrocities, of course, DID happen. So point-to-case, Hitler had bad motives, and did bad things. That guy Musolovich (spelling) from kosovo did much the same thing. "purifying" in brutal ways. Sure a lot was deported, but a lot was also murdered. He's being crucified too. There's a distinct difference between people like them, and people like the US.

So why the heck are you comparing?

If every organization was judged by the bad things they did, then we can all go to hell. But I prefer to see the good that also results from those same organizations and balance them out. When things are weighed, US comes out a lot better than hitler, bin laden, iraq, north korea, etc...
Posted By: Cold Sunn

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/02/03 03:38 PM

Another thing the US does is put in a mostly democratic and hopefully stable government to replace the one they had before. If we didn't do this, they would go back to the same shitty gov't with a new leader. I am sick of hearing how the US needs to stay out of everyone's business. I think there should be more countries that can say, "Hey, stop [censored] doing that." Whose policy was it, Britain? that decided they would ignore the Germans until they did something "worthy of war" and it turned out to be a bad idea. I am against war, but not enough that I would want my country to stay neutral all the time while some country starts destroying others.

One thing I would have respect for, is Hitler's ability to manipulate the crowd and take advantage of the situation. The reason I don't have respect for him is because he is evil. I don't respect someone's ability to rape, but I might respect their ability to m4d s3chs0r.

Ever watch shows like Iron Chef, anime, or Spanish television? I was thinking, they look really overacted and silly, the kind of thing a kid would really enjoy. It's like body language and infliction in someone's voice and everything about acting is a drug, and they need something stronger. I think that the Japanese culture is probably more fast paced than the American, but this might just be from stereotypes. Doesn't most technology that's supposed to make our lives easier come from Japan? So if that is the direction we are moving in, I imagine alot of crap that's just way over the top. Loud everything, exaggerated expressions, flashing lights. Remember the minimum speed limits in F451? I can see that happening in the US, especially since Germany has the autobahn. But I still the think we are going to go up as much as we go down in the future.
Posted By: dashocker

Re: Our fast paced society and its impact on us - 02/13/03 09:21 PM

hahahahaha, windead you are too funny. yes, everyday i go to school with a a gigantic rock on my back and move rocks back and forth all day. no learning. no fun. no social interaction. just rock moving. thats how i want it to be for my children, too. im sure they would enjoy the american oppression as much as i do. NO WAIT! ILL FIGHT IT! I'll trade in all my clothes for a jacket with an anarchy sign! I'll also get an insane hair cut! This will show my defiance!
Just because you are different than other people doesen't make you a rebel. Protests occur every week against the war in Iraq on the lawn of the court house in my city. No one is shot, beat up, or sent to jail. People all over the country protest every week. And not just "hippies" either. Thousands protest every week. Yet it doesen't matter because our President does not care about his people at all. He's full of [censored]. He's an idiot. The fact he keeps prolonging the decision and ACTING like he isn't going to attack if Iraq forks over the weapons is putting our economy in the [censored] hole(try proving you don't have something that someone else accuses you of having for a fun, educational excercise). BTW, war isn't going to help our economy. The reason war helps an economy is because it creates jobs. BUT GUESS WHAT? We have enough weapons, aircraft, etc. all ready to take out Iraq. So no jobs, no economy boost. Your story about your jacket just proved my point that one person can't make a difference, btw.

This is way too [censored] long so I'm going to end with a side-note:

Fleshy, as much as I respect you, I simply cannot agree with you. Hitler was an excellent leader. So was Clinton. But he will be remembered for for cheating on his wife, not for creating a budget surplus, working for Mid-East peace, etc.
Now Hitler was an obviously better leader than Clinton, but Hitler will always be remembered for the Holocaust, that's it. And now I have to hate you because you are one that said the Holocaust didn't happen. Oh yeah, he only killed like 6000 people at Auschwitz, sure. No women or children were ever killed either. Just men who were criminals. Give me a break. He just made every Jew he conquered wear a star of David, and ship them to ghettos for decorative and re-location purposes. It's all a conspiracy! Please. I'm sure all those photos of piles of bodies and of men who weigh 50 lbs were created using PhotoShop too...

(HAHAHAHA, on a different note, Fleshy what the hell? One, the "doctor" that checked people at the camp was determining whether they could work or not. Those who couldn't(old, sick) were killed.
Second, the movement of jews was because of allies coming to liberate them. They ran for miles, starving, in freezing cold with no clothes. I think you should seriously consider reading "Night" by Elie Wiesel. I thought you were being legitimate at first, but those things you are saying sound like they are coming from some redneck confederate white-supremacist website. Its just a permutation of truth. I know my version is too...blah blah blah)
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