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#16711 - 07/22/02 03:09 PM Re: Whats your distro?
Scallion Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 48
Loc: iraq
How can noone here be using UNIX?

Let me tell you something...

Linux has become commercialized. It sucks cock nowadays because everyone's getting crappy distros like Mandrake and RH. RH is always full of security holes. Mandrake...PAAH! It's a n00b kit that replaces windoze. People are like "now i'm 31337 because i use LINUX" but in reality, there's no diff because they still use the GUI for everything and never learn what really makes the system work! Debian and Slack are semi-ok distros.

The only way Linux will help anyone become a better "hacker" is if they ditch X86 and get to know the command line and how the tools there work. Those tools are basically the back end for almost any app in X anyway.

Granted, though, Linux is a nice, free system that's passable if it's used right, but as I see it, people go out and cough up a hundred or so dollars for mandrake and crap like that when they can find a bajillion free linux CD's floating around in the backs of library books (HINT, HINT! See your computer section!) or at LUG meetings.

Besides, X Windows in almost any form (Gnome, KDE, blackbox, etc.) all present a security hazard because of their ability to shoot back an XTerm that cannot be detected by an IDS.

UNIX, however, has been around decades, and while it still has bugs, it has a lot less than barely 10 year old Linux, the new home of lamers and script kiddies.

Why, oh why do people have to get Linux!? Why not UNIX !?

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#16712 - 07/23/02 12:18 AM Re: Whats your distro?
mtlhd Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Los Angeles,CA
Quote:
How can noone here be using UNIX?
Well, in some way we kinda are. Linux IS a UNIX-compatible implementation, just like Free,
Net, and Open BSD are as well. I'm sure you knew that right?

Quote:
Linux has become commercialized
True. But so has Windows, but you still use it right?

Quote:
It sucks cock nowadays because everyone's getting crappy distros like Mandrake and RH.RH i
s always full of security holes
Why are they crappy?? Please elaborate. And as far as Red-Hat being buggy, that's not enti
rely true. It's really the packages or third party software that's included with RH or an
y distro for that matter, that make it so buggy

Quote:
Mandrake...PAAH! It's a n00b kit that replaces windoze.
This statement really errks me. Why do so many people think that Mandrake is specifically
made for beginners??? Just because it has an easy to use graphical install?? Slackware is
just as esay to install as Mandrake. Why not bash Slackware??? I'd much rather prefer to h
ave an easier install than spend counteless hours trying to install something like Gentoo.
That way I have more time to get rid of things I don't need and secure the box up.

Quote:
People are like "now i'm 31337 because i use LINUX"
What people??? I don't think I'm "31337" because I use Mandrake. Nor will I ever be "31337
". Nor do I care.

Quote:
there's no diff because they still use the GUI for everything
I don't.

Quote:
Debian and Slack are semi-ok distros.
Semi-ok?? What's the matter too hard for you to install?? I think those are the 2 top d
istros in the Linux community, as far as reliability and stability go. Just my $0.02.

Quote:
The only way Linux will help anyone become a better "hacker" is if they ditch X86 and get
to know the command line and how the tools there work
Man, I can do the same things from X-windows as in the command line. What difference does
it make to use the CLI or X?? Although I do agree with you that learning the command line is essential.

Quote:
people go out and cough up a hundred or so dollars for mandrake
I only spent 30$. I think it was worth it. Better than speding a couple hundred for Windows, eh?

Quote:
X Windows in almost any form (Gnome, KDE, blackbox, etc.) all present a security hazard be
cause of their ability to shoot back an XTerm that cannot be detected by an IDS
Wrong. You can have Snort alert you if there are incoming connections on an X server via s
nort rules. Although iptables isn't an IDS, it can stop people from connecting your X serv
er as well. And configuring your hosts.deny file to not allow outside connections will do
the trick as well. One more thing, Mandrake by default doesn't allow X connections unless
you specify which IP's you want to allow to connect.

Quote:
UNIX, however, has been around decades, and while it still has bugs, it has a lot less than barely 10 year old Linux
I agree with you there. But that shouldn't stop you or anyone from using Linux. Heck, there's even more to fix and play around with. Can't get any better than that.

Quote:
Why, oh why do people have to get Linux!
Because we can.

Quote:
Why not UNIX !?
Errr...One of several reasons not that many people use it is because it's just not as well
known as Linux is.The UNIX distros I can think of that are widley available are Plan-9 from bell-labs, Digital UNIX from compaq, and Solaris. And those are also just UNIX clones, from what I understand. Oh yeah, there's also AIX$$$$$, HP-UX$$$$, and IRIX$$$$$$. As you can see from those money signs, they cost quite a bit of money as well. So there you have it.

Also, I think it's kinda funny that you expect people on this board to use UNIX when you say most of them are lamers and you yourself have noticed that there isn't as much "intelligent fervor" as there used to be.
_________________________
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.

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#16713 - 07/23/02 02:57 AM Re: Whats your distro?
Deviation187 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 536
Loc: L.A Cal.
well you cleared things up, but damn you have too much time on your hands
_________________________
"Hmm, they have the internet on computers now." - Homer Simpson
http://wired.promodtecnologies.com/

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#16714 - 07/23/02 08:33 AM Re: Whats your distro?
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
Scallions comments also irked me, but I hadn't replied since I didn't have the knowledge in this area to back me up. Thanks mtlhd.

I'd like to add my support in this area...

they still use the GUI for everything

I installed RedHat 6.1 - a distro my dad got me a couple years ago. This is my first time - BUT - I chose NOT to install the GUI's cause I don't wanna learn them. I also installed it not so that I could feel LEET, but rather cause I wanted my webserver to run on something more secure. And trust me, it will be no less secure than on UNIX if the only daemon running is apache. Another reason I wanted to learn how to use linux is cause it's no nonsense. I don't go for fancy and pretty looks windows has. I like efficiency.

And you, my friend, have a very VERY narrow concept on what people want and why they do things.

And lastly, why get UNIX? More reliable? More stable? More secure? How can you get more reliable than in perfect working order? How can you get more stable when it never crashes (on me). How can you get it more secure when there's only one daemon running? I'm not going to PAY for something that gives me NO additional benefit!
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#16715 - 07/23/02 10:13 AM Re: Whats your distro?
Moffesto Offline
UGN Supporter

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 730
Loc: Kuntucky
actually, i kept my computer... im running mandrake 7.2... still trying to figure it out :x
_________________________
2 people can keep a secret as long as one is dead

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#16716 - 07/23/02 12:57 PM Re: Whats your distro?
Scallion Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 48
Loc: iraq
Ok, granted I was a little pissed about Linux when I wrote that, so I'll just say that most all distros are kinda crappy and have their problems, of which there are more than UNIX.

UNIX and Linux are not the same thing. They use a diff kernel - Linus Torvalds created Linux from scratch as an ALTERNATIVE to the costly UNIX platforms of his day.

I'd just like to point out that you were incorrect in this statement:
Quote:

Wrong. You can have Snort alert you if there are incoming connections on an X server via s
nort rules. Although iptables isn't an IDS, it can stop people from connecting your X serv
er as well. And configuring your hosts.deny file to not allow outside connections will do
the trick as well. One more thing, Mandrake by default doesn't allow X connections unless
you specify which IP's you want to allow to connect.
Shooting back an Xterm is using the code that you insert into the buffer from a buffer overflow to initiate a connection back to your computer, whence you can use Xterm to execute commands on the target computer. It's an OUTGOING connection, which is 'most always allowed. Snort can check incoming, but IDS's dont check outgoing connection requests.

If you think UNIX is costly go to http://www.freebsd.org.

Another comment:
Quote:

there's no diff because they still use the GUI for everything
---
I don't.
You must represent about 70% of the population then. Lose some weight.

Be irked all you like folks, but one day you'll realize that all you use your X-Windows boxes for is to look at porn and play tetris.

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#16717 - 07/23/02 03:10 PM Re: Whats your distro?
SilentRage Offline
DollarDNS Owner

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 1273
Loc: OH, USA
Be irked all you like folks, but one day you'll realize that all you use your X-Windows boxes for is to look at porn and play tetris.

Didn't both mtlhd and I say we don't use X-Windows or any other GUI?

You must represent about 70% of the population then. Lose some weight.

Ok, this doesn't make sense. mtlhd just says that he doesn't use linux GUI's for everything. Then you say he is apart of 70% of the population. So that must mean 70% of the population does NOT use linux GUI's for everything. But before, you said linux users DID use linux GUI's for everything. You're contradicting yourself.

---

look, stop, think about what you're doing. You're pissing people off. Why? Not because you stated an opinion, it's because you're bashing people in the process. Very cruel attitude directed at EVERYBODY in a given area. You can state your opinions without being an ass hole you know.

Windows is a great thing for many people, linux is a great thing for many of another type of people, and unix is for another type of people. Each group has their very valid and true reasons. Each group has their different circumstances and constraints. So show an ounce of understanding k?
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http://www.dollardns.net

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#16718 - 07/24/02 11:51 AM Re: Whats your distro?
Scallion Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 48
Loc: iraq
Ok, this doesn't make sense. mtlhd just says that he doesn't use linux GUI's for everything. Then you say he is apart of 70% of the population. So that must mean 70% of the population does NOT use linux GUI's for everything. But before, you said linux users DID use linux GUI's for everything. You're contradicting yourself.


WTF?


look, stop, think about what you're doing.

Doing that now.
You're pissing people off.
Ok.
Why?
Because my attitude about voicing my opinion differs from theirs.
Not because you stated an opinion, it's because you're bashing people in the process.
If you can't take some bashing, go live in a cardboard box. I take bashing every day at work.
Very cruel attitude directed at EVERYBODY in a given area.
I just said linux was a n00b kit and lots of lamers used it. Feeling like something's directed at you?
You can state your opinions without being an ass hole you know.
I could, but what point would there be in life then?
Windows is a great thing for many people,
W00f, i pity those people.
linux is a great thing for many of another type of people,
Some of which suck, and some of which do not.
and unix is for another type of people.
Again, some of which suck, some dont.
Each group has their very valid
Doubtful about validity here...
and true reasons.
True reasons, duh, else they wouldn't be using it.
Each group has their different circumstances and constraints.
Since we dont live in a "brave new world" (read the book, you'll get it) then i guess so...
So show an ounce of understanding k?
I have more than an ounce of understanding. Maybe...like...2. Or 3, on a good day.

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#16719 - 07/26/02 06:40 PM Re: Whats your distro?
Asteos Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 217
Loc: Nadia
Just out of curiousity, what OS ARE YOU running, Scallion? I agree with you about most of the UNIX vs Linux arguement. Unix has advantages over Linux. In my oppinion, BSD is the way to go if you need UNIX - not just because it's free - You will be Ph33R3d. If you like Linux (who doesn't?) Slackware is a great distro, I don't care what anyone says about it. Stable as a mother fucker, rock-hard solid. Slack's the way to go. Fuck redhat AND its bitch, Mandrake [Alien]
If you use rh or mandrake, please ask yourself why. It's never too late to switch.
_________________________
=~ s/boredom/ studies/g

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#16720 - 07/26/02 07:21 PM Re: Whats your distro?
Predator Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 197
Loc: Belgium
Quote:
Originally posted by Asteos:
Just out of curiousity, what OS ARE YOU running, Scallion? I agree with you about most of the UNIX vs Linux arguement. Unix has advantages over Linux. In my oppinion, BSD is the way to go if you need UNIX - not just because it's free - You will be Ph33R3d. If you like Linux (who doesn't?) Slackware is a great distro, I don't care what anyone says about it. Stable as a mother fucker, rock-hard solid. Slack's the way to go. Fuck redhat AND its bitch, Mandrake [Alien]
If you use rh or mandrake, please ask yourself why. It's never too late to switch.
Oh gosh, why is everybody bashing about slackware is cool, slackware is 31337 and mandrake and redhat are shit, they are for newbies, geez, that's bullshit. True, mandrake and rh are ways much easy to configure, but please stop this bullshit (oh and before you start flaming on me, i do run slackware and fbsd, so please, first do think before you flame me, lol)
_________________________
Never argue with fools... They will only drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience...

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#16721 - 07/26/02 08:18 PM Re: Whats your distro?
Asteos Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 217
Loc: Nadia
What are you saying? I don't have a right of opinion, because if you are then that's not cool at all and you can suck a fat one But if not then whatever. I didn't say slackware was elite, I said it kicks the shit out of redhat and mandrake though, because it does. I can stay here all day listing why. I have used redhat before, many many times installing it. It's so fucking bugged out it's not even funny. (hint: if you're running redhat 7^ it's a good idea to monitor your lpd deamon if it's installed) In my *humble-shouldn't-be-so-loyal-to-a-certain-distro* opinion, Redhat aint shit compared to Slack, sorry. If you've run the shit then you know what I'm talking about. Slack will do anything you tell it to, faster and more securely than rh would.
_________________________
=~ s/boredom/ studies/g

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#16722 - 07/27/02 03:25 AM Re: Whats your distro?
Predator Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 197
Loc: Belgium
Quote:
Originally posted by Asteos:
Fuck redhat AND its bitch, Mandrake [Alien]
If you use rh or mandrake, please ask yourself why. It's never too late to switch.
It's about that one, it's a clear flame to rh and mandrake to me... . I don't mind you telling your opinion, but telling me they suck, gimme 1 reason why rh or mandrake does suck
_________________________
Never argue with fools... They will only drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience...

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#16723 - 07/27/02 05:51 AM Re: Whats your distro?
Asteos Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 217
Loc: Nadia
*Sigh* You really want to hear me rant about this? You asked for one reason, but I know that means a complete-in-depth detailed list. So here goes.

I don't like bashing on linux, whatever the distribution, because it's all the same open-source community n shit, but you have to admit that some distros ...*cough*SLACK have a huge advantage over redhat.

The install program for rh crashes on occasions where you select independent packages, this isn't so bad the first few times because of the easy-ass install-I don't mind going back, but after a while it gets so ... fucking [Bang] annoying!

Redhat is also very mainstream if you haven't noticed. Let me explain how this affects the product as a whole: Redhat is well-known and many people probably use it, for a while at least. Lots of windows users who are looking for an alternative to microsoft's bullshit, propriety-ass software will migrate to linux. Do you see where this is going? I'll explain more ... they come to the linux scene and are almost automatically ambushed with rh's 'easy to install' shit all up in their faces. They think to themselves, "Easy linux install? Wow, that's exactly what I'm looking for." So they install it and it to make things even easier rh offers a "Graphical Login" option for X. This means that when you boot your computer it gives you a login screen, not just to the system, but loads X immediately afterwards. Now I'm thinking to myself ... I know that there's nothing wrong with choosing to run X, but under redhat it SUCKS. At times it's very unstable and way too slow. So anyways, rh sees this and that is why they make shit so easy. But making it easy doesn't automatically mean good things. The only thing the user will learn is how to manipulate X into their own creation. They wont learn the rest of the system and what it has to offer untill they advance and switch to a better distro. They might also pick up on how to unzip files and hopefully, install them so they can use all their favorite x apps.

Anyways, as I was saying, it's slow as death. I ran rh on an i686, which isn't too shabby, but it ran like shit. Very slow. And to be honest I don't like the package manager, either. The system is riddled with bugs, and overall is just a big pain in the ass [Puke]

Those are my own reasons as to why I say redhat sucks. RH may not suck for you - maybe you like dealing with all that ... just HAPPY shit I mentioned ... but I don't. If you still think I'm lying or don't know what I'm talking about go ahead and try it out yourself and soon you too will come to realise the weakness of rh ... eventually.

The most useful thing I see rh (or mandrake)
doing as part of the linux community is getting people the hell away from windows, and that's always a plus. Maybe user-friendliness has it's purposes afteral, but if you want a real OS with balls of steel redhat probably isn't what you're looking for. If you want an easy to use linux system, PhatLinux, Mandrake or redhat is probably for you.

Okay I sound like a damn commercial now so I think I'll stop. Hope you're happy
_________________________
=~ s/boredom/ studies/g

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#16724 - 07/27/02 06:41 AM Re: Whats your distro?
Predator Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 197
Loc: Belgium
Ok, now i'm satisfied

I never had any problems with the install of redhat or heard about it, but it's possible.

And yes slack is much better right out of the box, but you do pay a price for that one, but who cares )
_________________________
Never argue with fools... They will only drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience...

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#16725 - 07/27/02 11:12 PM Re: Whats your distro?
hKzKnight Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 626
Loc: LAN
Hmm ok, this is going to be locked u flammers. One is, Linux is linux, they have dif distros, like flavors of jolly rancher. Slackware is good, yet mandrake is just a different feel. It's easier to install and setup, true. I have a life, I want to not spend a shit load of time setting up. It's not for n00bs, it's good for starting, yet also has different features, it can be for adviced as well. I've used over 75% of the distros (even small) in the world. You want hardcore, use Debain, some might say. I say PICK WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT. I wouldn't think of calling me a n00b!
_________________________
-hKzKnight
"The ghost... Was never there and you'll never see me"

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